"Thoughts and Prayers"

[iceheart08]

Don't you have to pass a background check to buy a gun? I bought a new shotgun last year and you fill in the federal form, they process it, you wait a little bit, they eventually come out and say you can buy the gun. Background check passed.

I'm good with the gun trafficking thing.

licensed dealers are required to conduct background checks. as it sounds like you experienced.

dealers at many gun shows, person to person, and online sales are exempt from that requirement. as you might imagine, this is a good chunk of gun sales in any given year. estimates vary but about 20-40% of gun purchases in the US are done legally without a background check.

 

[Willence]

licensed dealers are required to conduct background checks. as it sounds like you experienced.

dealers at many gun shows, person to person, and online sales are exempt from that requirement. as you might imagine, this is a good chunk of gun sales in any given year. estimates vary but about 20-40% of gun purchases in the US are done legally without a background check.

And what percentage of the guns used in mass shootings come from these sales that you're talking about?

If gun control is the solution and it's an easy fix if people like me would just agree to it then it should be easy to say how many of these shootings could have been prevented by controlling these sales.

 

[AugTig]

Well at least you were clear.

I advocate for a lot of solutions that would remedy a great amount of this.

-Let's start having armed protection at our schools. This would be so simple and solve so many of these issues.
-Let's start actually enforcing the gun laws we do have in place.
-I agree about glorifying violence and guns. I'm all for that and always have been.
-Let's map out ways to deal with the mental health crisis in this country. We've seen what happens when we just take things away and ignore the problems. Things get infinitely worse.

This is a free nation unlike others on this planet. There's a lot of good that's come from those differences. There are also some difficulties and some tragic consequences when we become a society with a hole in its soul. We end up with people... well, people like you I guess.

Taking guns from people who obey the law isn't going to help you with those problems. But let's say you do that and confiscate every weapon. Are you going to defend the border? Right now, it's totally open and we're killing tens of thousands of kids with the drugs we allow to flow over that border. It's really sad we don't care about the steady flow of bodies of our youth as much as we care about what happened today. How are you going to get weapons from gangs? How are you going to defend people from the tyranny of government? After the last 2 years, it's become more obvious than ever there is a massive need for defense against the government.

FWIW, caring about others, loving your neighbor and following the teachings of Jesus would reduce all this by 100% immediately. That's not insane. It's just the right way. I don't like you at all but I do love you and I would do anything I could to help you if you were in need. That's not insane.

Well said brother.

 

[CUT93]

And what percentage of the guns used in mass shootings come from these sales that you're talking about?

If gun control is the solution and it's an easy fix if people like me would just agree to it then it should be easy to say how many of these shootings could have been prevented by controlling these sales.

To @iceheart08 credit, he admitted a few posts up that about the only law you could pass to make any significant difference would be to ban handguns, or all guns- which is obviously unconstitutional.

I get people are emotional, but you would think after this has happened multiple times people would have already had a chance to think about what could be done from a gun legislation perspective and realize there really isn't a law you can pass that is going to make a huge difference.

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

Does this meet that standard? Always some political asswipe like him running to microphone to try and score political points from a tragedy. Have not heard him or anyone else offer one single idea that would have stopped any significant number of gun homicides.

View embedded media

You think maybe being from Connecticut that he might be a little more connected and because of that more emotional about the issue of kids getting shot while at school? Is that even a possibility?

Or because the guy’s politics are different than your own you also feel the need to immediately dismiss and attack what he said as he pleas for his colleagues to do better? For our country to expect better?

So my reaction to your statement Is the same as my response to Willence’s….🤔

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

Well at least you were clear.

I advocate for a lot of solutions that would remedy a great amount of this.

-Let's start having armed protection at our schools. This would be so simple and solve so many of these issues.
-Let's start actually enforcing the gun laws we do have in place.
-I agree about glorifying violence and guns. I'm all for that and always have been.
-Let's map out ways to deal with the mental health crisis in this country. We've seen what happens when we just take things away and ignore the problems. Things get infinitely worse.

This is a free nation unlike others on this planet. There's a lot of good that's come from those differences. There are also some difficulties and some tragic consequences when we become a society with a hole in its soul. We end up with people... well, people like you I guess.

Taking guns from people who obey the law isn't going to help you with those problems. But let's say you do that and confiscate every weapon. Are you going to defend the border? Right now, it's totally open and we're killing tens of thousands of kids with the drugs we allow to flow over that border. It's really sad we don't care about the steady flow of bodies of our youth as much as we care about what happened today. How are you going to get weapons from gangs? How are you going to defend people from the tyranny of government? After the last 2 years, it's become more obvious than ever there is a massive need for defense against the government.

FWIW, caring about others, loving your neighbor and following the teachings of Jesus would reduce all this by 100% immediately. That's not insane. It's just the right way. I don't like you at all but I do love you and I would do anything I could to help you if you were in need. That's not insane.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

Also, there was not an armed officer on site according to the information I can find. I'm talking about a fully armed officer equipped in body armor ready to deal with issues outside the front door of the school.

Realistically, where do you want guys in full combat gear just hanging out every day? Grocery stores? Hospitals? Schools? Subways? Churches?

Come on man…you know better than this. Peopled went absolutely nuts about this being a police state when they were asked to wear masks...

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

Realistically, where do you want guys in full combat gear just hanging out every day? Grocery stores? Hospitals? Schools? Subways? Churches?

Come on man…you know better than this

US Marshals go unnoticed.

This should be the discussion.

 

[jakefest]

Maybe a good first step to take would be to make it much more difficult for these broken people to get guns?

Totally agree with this. I live in NJ, it's so painfully hard to obtain a license to buy a gun and so restrictive on which guns you're allowed to own, that I signed them all over to my Dad (lives in Alabama) when I exited the military.

The issue I see though is even in states where it's really hard to legally purchase a gun, there are still shootings and even in states/cities that have the strictest gun laws, there are still shootings......ie, Chicago for example.

The question that I tend to ask most often is what's changed since we were kids and these horrible incidents weren't common? I think that has to be answered first so we can start putting resources in the right places.

 

[scotchtiger]

licensed dealers are required to conduct background checks. as it sounds like you experienced.

dealers at many gun shows, person to person, and online sales are exempt from that requirement. as you might imagine, this is a good chunk of gun sales in any given year. estimates vary but about 20-40% of gun purchases in the US are done legally without a background check.

I think you still have to have a background check when buying online. I did this and they require shipping to a local FFL, where you pick up the gun. I went through the exact same process as I described above when I bought online.

I also bought a gun at a gun show maybe 10 years ago. Also the same thing. They were on the phone for clearance for some time before the transaction could be closed. But maybe that doesn’t happen all the time?

I agree that background checks should occur in these situations. But in my personal experience, they already are. I’m fine if that needs further codification though.

I don’t know how you manage P2P though. Seems impossible to track.

Edit: Actually, for P2P sales, maybe require that they are done at a FFL just like my online purchase example. But enforcement would be an issue.

 

[yoshi121374]

My wife is an Elementary School Counselor and this hits really close to home for me. I am also a legal gun owner. My personal feelings and frustrations are that nothing will change. We will have a lot of gnashing of teeth,and rushing to the TV Cameras, but nothing will change.

We need some serious Mental Health training at the Early grade level, we need to educate children on self regulation of emotions. We must work on better security of schools including restriction of access for family members.

I do think common sense gun laws are in order. I don't think an AR 15 should be legal. I know what it is and what it is t, but none of you or I hunt with it. It is a weapon made to kill people. I would eliminate the gun show loopholes. Every gun I own, and I have 8, were purchased legally through a dealer with a background check. Anyone legally owning a gun should at least be required to pass as much background as it takes to get a driver's license.

What's so damn sad is that this isn't going to happen because we are so incapable of compromise. We believe that if we give at all, we lose. I am not scared that if I no longer can walk into a store and buy the parts to build my own AR I am losing my rights and the government is gonna take all my guns.

I don't want my wife to be killed, and I know that she would put herself in front of "her" kids. Teachers are vilified by many on here for any number of perceived faults, but I know what they do daily,I know what they do for kids daily, I know how shitty most parents are.

 

[mcsmith1980]

Full disclosure on my part, I am a hunter, own many guns and a proponent of legal gun ownership.

I, like many of you, have young children and it breaks my heart and sickens me when I hear stories of violence against children. I pray that these parents and those communities will feel the comfort of God despite these tragic events. Further, I pray that God will provide guidance for solutions and we will have the courage to follow that wisdom.

As is often the case, when these incidents happen, my wife and I discuss solutions. It seems to me that there is not some one thing that will solve these problems.

First, banning all guns is not going to happen as there aren’t going to be 2/3s of either chamber of Congress to overturn the 2nd Amendment. Maybe that is due to lobbyists, maybe gun rights represents the politician’s voter’s views. Who knows? Just not going to happen.

Second, I would be in favor of making guns harder to legally obtain. I can think of almost no instance of me trying to buy a gun in which I needed it that day or even that week. If there was some type of prolonged wait period from POS to ownership, I could support that law. If that period enabled a more stringent background search, great. Again, I can think of few examples where a law abiding citizen is desperate to take ownership on the day of POS other than their own impatience.

Third, it would be short sighted to think that just implementing tougher gun laws will make these instances go away. They won’t. Evil will always exist. Sickness will always exist. I’m not a psychologist, psychiatrist or medical professional, but we have to improve our screenings for mental illness. These people need help. While receiving help, these people don’t need access to any harmful objects (cars, drugs, alcohol, guns, knives, etc.). How do you do that? I have no idea. It seems that this would be almost as a difficult discussion as stricter gun laws.

Fourth, all schools need armed officers. In my opinion, this should be the responsibility of the state, city or county government. These areas understand their unique needs and circumstances better than the Federal government.

Fifth, we need to acknowledge that the family structure is broken. It seems that many of these assailants come from troubled backgrounds of broken homes. Or at least homes in turmoil. Again, not a psychologist or medical doctor, but we as a society have to step up to provide support and guidance to children of broken homes. More Federal government involvement is not the solution.

Finally, our elected officials need to stop being glory seeking celebrities and lead. This occurs across the entire political spectrum. I would love to see term limits for Congress, but I know that will never happen. Unfortunately, I fear that the quality of human serving in elected office won’t improve either. Money, power, attention, etc. are often the gods of our politicians and many are fervent believers. Crossing party lines to solve problems is viewed as politically impossible so blame, childish name calling, etc. is thrown all over social media. All things end. Perhaps the undoing of the USA will be rooted in the failure of our own politicians to govern.

Again, I pray that these communities feel the peace of God. Also, I pray that these troubled youths feel love, help and support from within their communities long before they reach these terrible mental places.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

Full disclosure on my part, I am a hunter, own many guns and a proponent of legal gun ownership.

I, like many of you, have young children and it breaks my heart and sickens me when I hear stories of violence against children. I pray that these parents and those communities will feel the comfort of God despite these tragic events. Further, I pray that God will provide guidance for solutions and we will have the courage to follow that wisdom.

As is often the case, when these incidents happen, my wife and I discuss solutions. It seems to me that there is not some one thing that will solve these problems.

First, banning all guns is not going to happen as there aren’t going to be 2/3s of either chamber of Congress to overturn the 2nd Amendment. Maybe that is due to lobbyists, maybe gun rights represents the politician’s voter’s views. Who knows? Just not going to happen.

Second, I would be in favor of making guns harder to legally obtain. I can think of almost no instance of me trying to buy a gun in which I needed it that day or even that week. If there was some type of prolonged wait period from POS to ownership, I could support that law. If that period enabled a more stringent background search, great. Again, I can think of few examples where a law abiding citizen is desperate to take ownership on the day of POS other than their own impatience.

Third, it would be short sighted to think that just implementing tougher gun laws will make these instances go away. They won’t. Evil will always exist. Sickness will always exist. I’m not a psychologist, psychiatrist or medical professional, but we have to improve our screenings for mental illness. These people need help. While receiving help, these people don’t need access to any harmful objects (cars, drugs, alcohol, guns, knives, etc.). How do you do that? I have no idea. It seems that this would be almost as a difficult discussion as stricter gun laws.

Fourth, all schools need armed officers. In my opinion, this should be the responsibility of the state, city or county government. These areas understand their unique needs and circumstances better than the Federal government.

Fifth, we need to acknowledge that the family structure is broken. It seems that many of these assailants come from troubled backgrounds of broken homes. Or at least homes in turmoil. Again, not a psychologist or medical doctor, but we as a society have to step up to provide support and guidance to children of broken homes. More Federal government involvement is not the solution.

Finally, our elected officials need to stop being glory seeking celebrities and lead. This occurs across the entire political spectrum. I would love to see term limits for Congress, but I know that will never happen. Unfortunately, I fear that the quality of human serving in elected office won’t improve either. Money, power, attention, etc. are often the gods of our politicians and many are fervent believers. Crossing party lines to solve problems is viewed as politically impossible so blame, childish name calling, etc. is thrown all over social media. All things end. Perhaps the undoing of the USA will be rooted in the failure of our own politicians to govern.

Again, I pray that these communities feel the peace of God. Also, I pray that these troubled youths feel love, help and support from within their communities long before they reach these terrible mental places.

Couldn’t have said it better, myself.

 

[scotchtiger]

Finally, our elected officials need to stop being glory seeking celebrities and lead. This occurs across the entire political spectrum. I would love to see term limits for Congress, but I know that will never happen. Unfortunately, I fear that the quality of human serving in elected office won’t improve either. Money, power, attention, etc. are often the gods of our politicians and many are fervent believers. Crossing party lines to solve problems is viewed as politically impossible so blame, childish name calling, etc. is thrown all over social media. All things end. Perhaps the undoing of the USA will be rooted in the failure of our own politicians to govern.

Nice post, particularly this paragraph.

 

[nytigerfan]

Uvalde school shooting: At least 21 killed at Robb Elementary

At least 19 students and three adults were killed in what is Texas' deadliest mass shooting at a school.

www.ksat.com

How many days until @TigerGrowls and @JoeBidenSniffsKids claim this was a false flag event orchestrated by the Biden administration? How about Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Bobert?

We can only hope that the current weakness of the NRA will result in some sort of sensible legislation to keep guns out of the hands of crazy ****s like this asshole.

 

[BDAZED]

licensed dealers are required to conduct background checks. as it sounds like you experienced.

dealers at many gun shows, person to person, and online sales are exempt from that requirement. as you might imagine, this is a good chunk of gun sales in any given year. estimates vary but about 20-40% of gun purchases in the US are done legally without a background check.

Dealers at gun shows are no different than any other place to buy a gun, same forms and checks. Internet sales all have to be sent to dealers to go through the same forms and checks. Private sales are a different thing all together, dealers won’t be dealers very long if they’re doing “private sales” like you think. As far as private sales go, if I sell one of my guns to a known felon then I will be liable in some form or fashion.
I actually agree that your idea to ban all guns and wait 50 years would actually work eventually but I can’t see that ever happening.

 

[TheSweatshirt]

I'm all for tighter security at schools, but armed guards walking around (and you would need multiple in order to be effective) would seem to be traumatic for the children. If we are worried about the trauma of wearing masks, then certainly having armed guards march up and down school hallways can not be the option.

We have 300 million guns in this country. We're never getting those off the streets, nor should we. That's a constitutional right. But just like not everyone is qualified to drive a car, not everyone is qualified to own a gun. There is no silver bullet to prevent any type of attack, but we can certainly make it more difficult for some nut job to pull off the next one.

 

[dpic73]

We have 300 million guns in this country. We're never getting those off the streets, nor should we. That's a constitutional right. But just like not everyone is qualified to drive a car, not everyone is qualified to own a gun. There is no silver bullet to prevent any type of attack, but we can certainly make it more difficult for some nut job to pull off the next one.

This!

 

[BDAZED]

I'm all for tighter security at schools, but armed guards walking around (and you would need multiple in order to be effective) would seem to be traumatic for the children. If we are worried about the trauma of wearing masks, then certainly having armed guards march up and down school hallways can not be the option.

We have 300 million guns in this country. We're never getting those off the streets, nor should we. That's a constitutional right. But just like not everyone is qualified to drive a car, not everyone is qualified to own a gun. There is no silver bullet to prevent any type of attack, but we can certainly make it more difficult for some nut job to pull off the next one.

Supposedly this guy just walked in the school???? How does this happen? I’m waiting to hear exactly what happened and how he just waltzed in and started shooting.

 

[yoshi121374]

My wife was discussing school security this morning with me. Her school has locked doors and requires entry through a major n front door that requires check in and Id check. That said, it's pretty damn easy to follow someone in a door that is opened. The custodians will prop doors open while taking out garbage, deliveries to the cafeteria ect. It's also terrifying to think of an armed attacker posted up across the street with a rifle and scope while kids are at recess.

My wife's school has done a lot of rehearsal for an active shooter scenario. One change their district advocates is that they don't lock-down, they exit and get away. The school is all one level and every class has windows that are full size and exit away. In their active shooter scenario the administration locks in a safe room with cameras and the loudspeaker and they announce where the shooter is throughout the building so people know when to leave.

The "armed teacher" scenario is kinda dumb to me. My wife is a crack shot, and she hates the idea of carrying a gun and being responsible at all times for that weapon.

 

[TigsGirl]

I'm all for tighter security at schools, but armed guards walking around (and you would need multiple in order to be effective) would seem to be traumatic for the children. If we are worried about the trauma of wearing masks, then certainly having armed guards march up and down school hallways can not be the option.

We have 300 million guns in this country. We're never getting those off the streets, nor should we. That's a constitutional right. But just like not everyone is qualified to drive a car, not everyone is qualified to own a gun. There is no silver bullet to prevent any type of attack, but we can certainly make it more difficult for some nut job to pull off the next one.

From a former teacher’s perspective, kids get used to security officers. They can be the friend that a lot of these kids need sometimes, a friendly guardian, not a scary armed force. Some of these, male and female, have been the most positive forces in our schools, for faculty and students. A friend highly respected by all. And it’s not rare. Put more highly trained “officers” in, from volunteers, pastors, active retirees, alternating part time or whatever states can do. Of course, will not stop all, but a highly increased presence is needed. And add metal detectors where possible. Schools can’t be seen as “safe” zones to the culprits.

 

[dpic73]

The "armed teacher" scenario is kinda dumb to me. My wife is a crack shot, and she hates the idea of carrying a gun and being responsible at all times for that weapon.

Not only that, but after navigating the pandemic and being threatened and harassed over culture war issues that aren't happening, we now want them to carry a weapon....and on a piddling salary. We'll be lucky to even have any teachers at some point.

 

[yoshi121374]

Not only that, but after navigating the pandemic and being threatened and harassed over culture war issues that aren't happening, we now want them to carry a weapon....and on a piddling salary. We'll be lucky to even have any teachers at some point.

Never ceases to amaze me. We demonize,second-guess teachers, question their professionalism and expertise at every turn, including passing legislation that dictates what they can discuss with students, but we trust them to carry a gun and defend our children with their very lives against armed intruders.

That level of hypocrisy is shocking to me.

 

[tigerworx]

Never ceases to amaze me. We demonize,second-guess teachers, question their professionalism and expertise at every turn, including passing legislation that dictates what they can discuss with students, but we trust them to carry a gun and defend our children with their very lives against armed intruders.

That level of hypocrisy is shocking to me.

Maybe ask a few teachers if they would like to be able to defend themselves.
Maybe even defend their students?

 

[tigerworx]

Not only that, but after navigating the pandemic and being threatened and harassed over culture war issues that aren't happening, we now want them to carry a weapon....and on a piddling salary.

We'll be lucky to even have any teachers at some point.

 

[yoshi121374]

Maybe ask a few teachers if they would like to be able to defend themselves.
Maybe even defend their students?

I have. As I mentioned above, my wife has a CWP and is an excellent shot. She absolutely does not want to carry a gun in school.

Also, considering how poorly most of our LEOs perform as marksman in stressful armed situations,I would be concerned of potential injuries to children.

I think that there are much better solutions such as better security, posted LEOs in schools, better understanding of how to behave during an active shooter scenario to lessen the deaths and injuries, better understanding and identifying of the potential perpetrators of these crimes.

My wife, who as I said earlier, is a school counselor could tell you today the children that would concern her in the school. We need to listen to our experts,provide oversight and mental evaluation.

It also needs to be harder to get a firearm. Or at least, slower.

 

[iceheart08]

Dealers at gun shows are no different than any other place to buy a gun, same forms and checks. Internet sales all have to be sent to dealers to go through the same forms and checks. Private sales are a different thing all together, dealers won’t be dealers very long if they’re doing “private sales” like you think. As far as private sales go, if I sell one of my guns to a known felon then I will be liable in some form or fashion.
I actually agree that your idea to ban all guns and wait 50 years would actually work eventually but I can’t see that ever happening.

What you typed isn't the case in every state. That's why we need a federal law.

 

[WapPride]

i thought teachers were grooming our kids to hate white people and become trans? now you guys want to arm them?

 

[BDAZED]

What you typed isn't the case in every state. That's why we need a federal law.

Name one state that doesn’t require DEALERS to do forms and a background check on gun purchases. In what state can you buy a gun online and have it sent to your house? The so called “gun show loophole” isn’t a real thing either, if you don’t have a dealer’s license then you’re a private citizen and the rules don’t apply. Universal background checks shouldn’t even be a thought as their is no way to keep up with it.

 

[Willence]

Never ceases to amaze me. We demonize,second-guess teachers, question their professionalism and expertise at every turn, including passing legislation that dictates what they can discuss with students, but we trust them to carry a gun and defend our children with their very lives against armed intruders.

That level of hypocrisy is shocking to me.

With the enormous responsibility they have, teachers should be questioned at every step. We should all be questioned at every step. I am questioned in my profession constantly and my behaviors are monitored to make sure I am conducting myself in a fair and non-discriminatory way. And so often, these issues (which I believe you're referring to) come from the district level. Teachers aren't failing this country. Public education is. It no longer functions and I'm not sure when the last time it did. That's not an attack on your wife or the commitment she's made. Most teachers would give their lives to protect their students. Tragically, we saw that yet again with what happened yesterday.

I personally don't want to see teachers armed. But I do want armed protection in every school. It's the easy way out to state we need to take the guns. These things didn't happen when I was young and there were guns at school and in the cars of students at the school. The guns haven't changed. We have! And until we're willing to start facing that, these horrible tragedies will continue. As details about the shooter emerge, we see yet again there were dozens of warning signs that every ignored. Had we not done that, it is a near 100% certainty all those kids would be alive and at school today. Ask yourself why people would avoid the near 100% solution?

 

[Willence]

Name one state that doesn’t require DEALERS to do forms and a background check on gun purchases. In what state can you buy a gun online and have it sent to your house? The so called “gun show loophole” isn’t a real thing either, if you don’t have a dealer’s license then you’re a private citizen and the rules don’t apply. Universal background checks shouldn’t even be a thought as their is no way to keep up with it.

You know the answer to this. All these things that are stated aren't real. They are narratives crafted to gain control and power. If we were really interested in saving lives, we'd have done that a long time ago. The quest for political power makes monsters of us all!

 

[iceheart08]

Name one state that doesn’t require DEALERS to do forms and a background check on gun purchases. In what state can you buy a gun online and have it sent to your house? The so called “gun show loophole” isn’t a real thing either, if you don’t have a dealer’s license then you’re a private citizen and the rules don’t apply. Universal background checks shouldn’t even be a thought as their is no way to keep up with it.

In your haste to win an internet argument I see you've failed to read/comprehend.

Not all sellers at gunshows are dealers. That's an objective fact. In some places, you have to be a dealer to participate in a gun show. In some venues and places you don't.

If you are a private citizen selling a weapon online or at a gun show, you should be required to walk your ass down to a dealer with the purchaser and have the dealer run a check.

Violent history checks should always be a thing. No matter the seller. If you sell a weapon to someone as a private citizen, you should be required to do the same thing a dealer does. Let the dealers charge a fee. But it has to be done.

 

[dpic73]

 

[moradatiger70]

From a former teacher’s perspective, kids get used to security officers. They can be the friend that a lot of these kids need sometimes, a friendly guardian, not a scary armed force. Some of these, male and female, have been the most positive forces in our schools, for faculty and students. A friend highly respected by all. And it’s not rare. Put more highly trained “officers” in, from volunteers, pastors, active retirees, alternating part time or whatever states can do. Of course, will not stop all, but a highly increased presence is needed. And add metal detectors where possible. Schools can’t be seen as “safe” zones to the culprits.

I think this is spot on. My mother was a teacher for 25 years, retired now and we've had this same exact conversation many times before. It's a measure than can happen more quickly IMO than anything else. It likely would not stop violent acts in every situation, but I think it's a good first step and a viable one!

 

[Willence]

In your haste to win an internet argument I see you've failed to read/comprehend.

Not all sellers at gunshows are dealers. That's an objective fact. In some places, you have to be a dealer to participate in a gun show. In some venues and places you don't.

If you are a private citizen selling a weapon online or at a gun show, you should be required to walk your ass down to a dealer with the purchaser and have the dealer run a check.

Violent history checks should always be a thing. No matter the seller. If you sell a weapon to someone as a private citizen, you should be required to do the same thing a dealer does. Let the dealers charge a fee. But it has to be done.

In your haste to mention the need to enact laws to show your expertise over the internet, you failed to comprehend reality.

This monsters in Texas legally purchased his weapons. He passed a background check. He was able to spend thousands of dollars on these weapons. He didn't get these guns privately. He didn't get them at a gun show. He didn't exploit loopholes.

The Buffalo shooter didn't obtain his guns illegally. It does appear as though he probably should have been flagged but he wasn't by the system in New York. But then the most common outcome for government is failure and it was so in this case as well. Additionally, New York happens to have some of the strictest gun laws in the US. He didn't go to Texas to buy his guns. He got them in New York and passed a background check. He didn't get them privately or at a gun show.

So basically, all these things you've said in this thread that "have to be done" wouldn't have stopped any of these shootings. Then what are we doing it for? What's the point of posturing as though these measures would prevent these tragedies? In 2021 there were over 108,000 overdose deaths in the US. There were over 19,000 people murdered in 2021. Do those lives count less?

At the end of the day, we're so busy fighting our pathetic culture war that we can't even come together to see the need for change in so many areas in our country. We have to be better people and we need to raise better people. How many of these evil individuals come from broken family situations? How many were bullied or abused? How many were ignored or isolated? How many fell victim to the toxic environment on social media? How many were mentally ill and didn't get help while those around them knew they were struggling? How many didn't have a community of faith around them providing support and love?

 

[PAWrocka]

In your haste to win an internet argument I see you've failed to read/comprehend.

Not all sellers at gunshows are dealers. That's an objective fact. In some places, you have to be a dealer to participate in a gun show. In some venues and places you don't.

If you are a private citizen selling a weapon online or at a gun show, you should be required to walk your ass down to a dealer with the purchaser and have the dealer run a check.

Violent history checks should always be a thing. No matter the seller. If you sell a weapon to someone as a private citizen, you should be required to do the same thing a dealer does. Let the dealers charge a fee. But it has to be done.

this is incredibly reasonable and I agree.

but ... I dont think it these steps would prevent most "mass shootings" or even crimes involving a gun. I cant say for certain, but I would imagine most firearms used in a school mass shooting are purchased legally, and guns used in most "crimes" are purchased on the street or are stolen.... again.... that is my opinion and I have no data to back that up.

BUT ... with that said ... I dont say the above to say that "we" shouldnt do as you propose.

Id like to see a couple of things .... many of which have been mentioned

- enforce the gun laws we currently have

- illegally discharging a firearm in a public place (i.e in a mall, church, school, park, street, etc) should be considered a act of domestic terrorism, in addition to attempted homicide

- My Conservative friends, say that we dont have a gun problem, but rather a mental illness problem. Ok I agree ... then properly fund mental health programs and services. You cant point to something being "the problem" then refuse to take action when asked to address that problem

Next two go hand in hand .....

- SROs or at least volunteers in all schools. I dont like the idea of armed personnel in schools, but ... it is what it is. I dont believe the budget is there to fund SROs in all schools; however, we absolutely have enough retired LEOs and/or retired military who could be vetted extensively and placed in schools or at least on school property. Incentive to volunteer? significant tax break, much like volunteer fireman.

- Exterior doors in schools need to include man traps. These are installed in businesses and airports across the country. I hate it ... but its necessary.


.....if we can afford to send Ukraine $40B+ in aide, we can afford to do this.

 

[moradatiger70]

In your haste to mention the need to enact laws to show your expertise over the internet, you failed to comprehend reality.

This monsters in Texas legally purchased his weapons. He passed a background check. He was able to spend thousands of dollars on these weapons. He didn't get these guns privately. He didn't get them at a gun show. He didn't exploit loopholes.

The Buffalo shooter didn't obtain his guns illegally. It does appear as though he probably should have been flagged but he wasn't by the system in New York. But then the most common outcome for government is failure and it was so in this case as well. Additionally, New York happens to have some of the strictest gun laws in the US. He didn't go to Texas to buy his guns. He got them in New York and passed a background check. He didn't get them privately or at a gun show.

So basically, all these things you've said in this thread that "have to be done" wouldn't have stopped any of these shootings. Then what are we doing it for? What's the point of posturing as though these measures would prevent these tragedies? In 2021 there were over 108,000 overdose deaths in the US. There were over 19,000 people murdered in 2021. Do those lives count less?

At the end of the day, we're so busy fighting our pathetic culture war that we can't even come together to see the need for change in so many areas in our country. We have to be better people and we need to raise better people. How many of these evil individuals come from broken family situations? How many were bullied or abused? How many were ignored or isolated? How many fell victim to the toxic environment on social media? How many were mentally ill and didn't get help while those around them knew they were struggling? How many didn't have a community of faith around them providing support and love?

While I agree with everything you said, what is wrong with having the stipulations in effect from @iceheart08 previous post?

 

[moradatiger70]

this is incredibly reasonable and I agree.

but ... I dont think it these steps would prevent most "mass shootings" or even crimes involving a gun. I cant say for certain, but I would imagine most firearms used in a school mass shooting are purchased legally, and guns used in most "crimes" are purchased on the street or are stolen.... again.... that is my opinion and I have no data to back that up.

BUT ... with that said ... I dont say the above to say that "we" shouldnt do as you propose.

Id like to see a couple of things .... many of which have been mentioned

- enforce the gun laws we currently have

- illegally discharging a firearm in a public place (i.e in a mall, church, school, park, street, etc) should be considered a act of domestic terrorism, in addition to attempted homicide

- My Conservative friends, say that we dont have a gun problem, but rather a mental illness problem. Ok I agree ... then properly fund mental health programs and services. You cant point to something being "the problem" then refuse to take action when asked to address that problem

Next two go hand in hand .....

- SROs or at least volunteers in all schools. I dont like the idea of armed personnel in schools, but ... it is what it is. I dont believe the budget is there to fund SROs in all schools; however, we absolutely have enough retired LEOs and/or retired military who could be vetted extensively and placed in schools or at least on school property. Incentive to volunteer? significant tax break, much like volunteer fireman.

- Exterior doors in schools need to include man traps. These are installed in businesses and airports across the country. I hate it ... but its necessary.


.....if we can afford to send Ukraine $40B+ in aide, we can afford to do this.

Funding is always a question. IMO it should be a no brainer and should not even be a consideration of implementation!!

 

[Willence]

While I agree with everything you said, what is wrong with having the stipulations in effect from @iceheart08 previous post?

My big issue is that @iceheart08 tends to favor federal laws on things. I don't like federal laws. I am not a fan of central government. If I had my way, most governmental departments would be dissolved and we'd fire 90% of the non-military federal work force. The executive branch would be neutered and returned to its intended role and we'd have a clear understanding that judges are in place to uphold the meaning in the Constitution and allow the changing of laws to be left to the legislatures.

In this case, a federal law as he mentioned wouldn't really do much. I do favor a measure that says if someone obtains a gun in a private sale that isn't overseen by a third party and the gun is used in a crime the person who sold the firearm is charged with a crime and put in jail.

 

[Willence]

- My Conservative friends, say that we dont have a gun problem, but rather a mental illness problem. Ok I agree ... then properly fund mental health programs and services. You cant point to something being "the problem" then refuse to take action when asked to address that problem

What programs do you want to fund? Who has refused to take action? I'd love to take action. I'd encourage you to look and see who the barriers to taking action are. And mental health is a slippery slope so we need to proceed cautiously.