Ukraine War

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

I don't think it's a win for Biden. I believe he has failed completely in the situation because we haven't worked to forcefully resolve this matter by providing an off-ramp for Putin and Russia. Now China is involved and we look weak and incompetent. Biden may be the worst foreign policy mind in our nation's history. He's been wrong on almost everything for his entire career. A child guessing answers on a multiple choice test would get more right.

Good thing he's not making decisions unilaterally. The head of the CIA was ambassador to Russia under Bush. The military people aren't stupid. I have no clue how you deduce that China getting involved makes us look weak. Of course they're going to get involved. If anything it makes Russia look even more pathetic than they've already proven themselves to be, being reduced to a Chinese vassal that's good for nothing but cheap energy. China's not sent military aid to Russia up to this point (we'd know, and it would show up on the internet). That shows you how much the Chinese think of Russia, and undoubtedly they may be concerned about completely burning bridges with the US.

There's a very simple off-ramp for Putin and Russia. Withdraw. We tried to talk him down from the ledge before the war even started. He wasn't having it. Why is the onus on the US and Ukraine to accommodate the wants of Russia in the midst of an invasion? If Russia withdraws, dialogue can resume immediately. Ukraine's not taking any Chinese-brokered, Russian-stamped peace deal seriously, nor is anyone else.

 

[Willence]

Good thing he's not making decisions unilaterally. The head of the CIA was ambassador to Russia under Bush. The military people aren't stupid. I have no clue how you deduce that China getting involved makes us look weak. Of course they're going to get involved. If anything it makes Russia look even more pathetic than they've already proven themselves to be, being reduced to a Chinese vassal that's good for nothing but cheap energy. China's not sent military aid to Russia up to this point (we'd know, and it would show up on the internet). That shows you how much the Chinese think of Russia, and undoubtedly they may be concerned about completely burning bridges with the US.

There's a very simple off-ramp for Putin and Russia. Withdraw. We tried to talk him down from the ledge before the war even started. He wasn't having it. Why is the onus on the US and Ukraine to accommodate the wants of Russia in the midst of an invasion? If Russia withdraws, dialogue can resume immediately. Ukraine's not taking any Chinese-brokered, Russian-stamped peace deal seriously, nor is anyone else.

You're making a moral argument for a political crisis. On balance, I agree with your moral argument but reality isn't going to provide us with that kind of withdrawal.

Also, I don't know what to tell you if you don't see the danger behind Russia being a vassal state to China. A Black Sea port accessible to China would be a tremendous threat. Russia is a historical bad actor on the world stage. This goes back as long as they've been recording history. It's a good chance that won't change now. They never fail to choose from among the worst possible options.

It's quite possible China isn't interested in seeing Russia win with Ukraine. Instead, China will swoop in on the wreckage and provide relief which will endear them to the Russians and give them outsize influence related to their energy reserves and many other matters. In this case, China is the wolf in sheep's clothing. We disagree a lot but you're a very smart person. Surely you see this isn't good in any respect.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

You're making a moral argument for a political crisis. On balance, I agree with your moral argument but reality isn't going to provide us with that kind of withdrawal.

Also, I don't know what to tell you if you don't see the danger behind Russia being a vassal state to China. A Black Sea port accessible to China would be a tremendous threat. Russia is a historical bad actor on the world stage. This goes back as long as they've been recording history. It's a good chance that won't change now. They never fail to choose from among the worst possible options.

It's quite possible China isn't interested in seeing Russia win with Ukraine. Instead, China will swoop in on the wreckage and provide relief which will endear them to the Russians and give them outsize influence related to their energy reserves and many other matters. In this case, China is the wolf in sheep's clothing. We disagree a lot but you're a very smart person. Surely you see this isn't good in any respect.

Russia turning to China was and remains inevitable with Putin and Xi in charge. It’s naive to think that Putin is going to have this epiphany and pivot towards the West. Like you said, Russia’s a bad actor. Is it unfortunate that they grow closer to China? Yes, but it’s not some insurmountable challenge, and it’s already been a large part of the strategic calculus of the US.

If Russia won’t accept diplomatic reasoning, then their military defeat is the goal we have to aim towards. The alternatives are much worse for us and the world I’d prefer to live in. The US is flawed, but I do believe we have a duty to shape the world for the better in a way that isn’t purely transactional. If not, I don’t see how one can view America as particularly great or exceptional, but that is the view of some on the right nowadays

 

[scotchtiger]

Meanwhile, our country is self destructing while we are giving them billions. I wonder why???

The money to Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with domestic issues. There's plenty of waste and inefficiency in the other $6 Trillion+ of federal spending for us to focus on.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I am not following who like and dislikes the war but I am liking we are bleeding Russia by using Ukraine plus our US military is studying the battlefield tactics and learning a hell of a lot about this situation

Go fight win Ukraine !

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

The money to Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with domestic issues. There's plenty of waste and inefficiency in the other $6 Trillion+ of federal spending for us to focus on.

Nothing like a good ole red herring

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

U.S. speeds up deliveries of Abrams tanks, Patriot systems to Ukraine

"The Pentagon is working as fast as they can," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby said.

www.politico.com

@PawsFan_

Would you look at that, it doesn't take 2 years to learn to operate a Patriot missile system.

 

[PawsFan_]

U.S. speeds up deliveries of Abrams tanks, Patriot systems to Ukraine

"The Pentagon is working as fast as they can," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby said.

www.politico.com

@PawsFan_

Would you look at that, it doesn't take 2 years to learn to operate a Patriot missile system.

From the Politico? Couldn't find a news source.

You've obviously never been in the military. There a huge difference from going to you basic school and being fully combat ready with a unit. Read the article....they are accelerating the training to get these guys to the field because Ukraine is desperate for the capability. Just because they are "trained" doesn't mean they are combat mission ready.

 

[WapPride]

I’ve seen you rag on Politico a lot recently and was curious what publications you actually consider fairly reputable.

 

[BlueRidgedf]

Everybody needs to get a good night's sleep, because those Ukraine pensions are depending on you !!!!!

 

[dpic73]

Everybody needs to get a good night's sleep, because those Ukraine pensions are depending on you !!!!!

Dis you?

 

[yoshi121374]

Dis you?

That's exactly how I picture @TigerGrowls

 

[TigerGrowls]

That's exactly how I picture @TigerGrowls

Ok bro. This is a secret cam pick of you down In Williamston trying to understand the deep state but failing all the time.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Bakhmut Falls, Artyomovsk Rises - Strategic and Symbolic City in Eastern Ukraine Fully Encircled by Russian Forces - Kiev Leaves 10k Soldiers Trapped in the 'Cauldron' | The Gateway Pundit | by Paul Serran

The Battle for Bakhmut/Artyomovsk has been widely considered one of the toughest since the Second World War.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[dpic73]

Americans horrible, Russia good, sounds like a winning message to me.

 

[dpic73]

Bakhmut Falls, Artyomovsk Rises - Strategic and Symbolic City in Eastern Ukraine Fully Encircled by Russian Forces - Kiev Leaves 10k Soldiers Trapped in the 'Cauldron' | The Gateway Pundit | by Paul Serran

The Battle for Bakhmut/Artyomovsk has been widely considered one of the toughest since the Second World War.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Russian "offensive capacity" in Bakhmut is decreasing but fierce fighting endures, Ukrainian military says

Russia launched another round of deadly strikes across Ukraine as fighting intensifies in the town of Avdiivka in the eastern Donetsk region. Follow live updates here.

edition.cnn.com

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

Bakhmut Falls, Artyomovsk Rises - Strategic and Symbolic City in Eastern Ukraine Fully Encircled by Russian Forces - Kiev Leaves 10k Soldiers Trapped in the 'Cauldron' | The Gateway Pundit | by Paul Serran

The Battle for Bakhmut/Artyomovsk has been widely considered one of the toughest since the Second World War.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

1. They’re not encircled.

2. The Soviet name for the city honors a Bolshevik. That’s what you’re promoting

 

[TigerGrowls]

1. They’re not encircled.

2. The Soviet name for the city honors a Bolshevik. That’s what you’re promoting

I am not promoting anything but the US ceasing any involvement other than negotiating a peace agreement. You are out of your mind on this issue. Go ahead and head to Ukraine and become a mercenary. You can fight for your cause. I bet Ukraine will give you honorary citizenship. Ukraine is full of nazis also. There is no virtue or good side in this mini war.

If you think the US based msm is not feeding you a very overly rosy and distorted picture of whats occurring then you are not very smart.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Is Ukraine On the Verge of Launching A Counter Offensive at Bakhmut?

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

I am not promoting anything but the US ceasing any involvement other than negotiating a peace agreement. You are out of your mind on this issue. Go ahead and head to Ukraine and become a mercenary. You can fight for your cause. I bet Ukraine will give you honorary citizenship. Ukraine is full of nazis also. There is no virtue or good side in this mini war.

If you think the US based msm is not feeding you a very overly rosy and distorted picture of whats occurring then you are not very smart.

The article you linked promotes the Bolshevik name for Bakhmut. Ukraine might be the first Nazi country led by a Jew. That you're incapable of differentiating between a flawed Ukraine or Putin's Russia speaks a lot about you.

I get information from Russian and Ukrainian sources on Telegram, hardly the "mainstream media." Where do you get your information from? The Gateway Pundit? What a bastion of journalism. You're free to disagree and debate with me about whatever. A lemming I am not.

 

[TigerGrowls]

The article you linked promotes the Bolshevik name for Bakhmut. Ukraine might be the first Nazi country led by a Jew. That you're incapable of differentiating between a flawed Ukraine or Putin's Russia speaks a lot about you.

I get information from Russian and Ukrainian sources on Telegram, hardly the "mainstream media." Where do you get your information from? The Gateway Pundit? What a bastion of journalism.

Ok....based on what you just said its very easy to see you are emotionally connected to this issue. You are worried about it way much more than you should be as an American. You must be ethnically related or something else. If you care about it thats fine, but I do not care enough about it to support sending hundreds of billions and depleting US readiness. No way no how. No matter what you think you know you are not totally right. The US has been pushing this on Russia in my opinion and a lot of others agree so there is no right or wrong. This is a border dispute and Russia has historical claims on that land no matter whether you like it or not.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

Ok....based on what you just said its very easy to see you are emotionally connected to this issue. You are worried about it way much more than you should be as an American. You must be ethnically related or something else. If you care about it thats fine, but I do not care enough about it to support sending hundreds of billions and depleting US readiness. No way no how. No matter what you think you know you are not totally right. The US has been pushing this on Russia in my opinion and a lot of others agree so there is no right or wrong. This is a border dispute and Russia has historical claims on that land no matter whether you like it or not.

We aren't sending hundreds of billions of dollars, so let's get that falsehood out of the way. You must be the only person to have worried about depleting US readiness. No one in the US government or military has thought of that.

On "historical claims" to the land, why is that Russia spearheaded its invasion with an attempt to take Kyiv and Kharkiv? They didn't start by trying to "liberate the Donbas," as they would put it. They wanted to decapitate the Ukrainian government and reinstall a Russian puppet. Phrasing it as a "border dispute" is plainly disingenuous. Nobody is making anyone join NATO but Russia. Sweden and Finland had no intention of joining before Putin invaded Ukraine, and we respected that. The onus is on Putin's Russia to cease its belligerence.

It's not that I think I know. I do know, because it's a fact. Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

[yoshi121374]

Ok....based on what you just said its very easy to see you are emotionally connected to this issue. You are worried about it way much more than you should be as an American. You must be ethnically related or something else. If you care about it thats fine, but I do not care enough about it to support sending hundreds of billions and depleting US readiness. No way no how. No matter what you think you know you are not totally right. The US has been pushing this on Russia in my opinion and a lot of others agree so there is no right or wrong. This is a border dispute and Russia has historical claims on that land no matter whether you like it or not.

You are truly clueless about this issue. You continue to spout factual inaccuracies and Pro-Soviet rhetoric. You literally suggest we take the pre WW2 position of allowing a global bully and invader to take over a sovereign state. Do you really think appeasement works?

Simple question, Do you feel like Russia and Putin are our friends or our enemies?

 

[TigerGrowls]

You are truly clueless about this issue. You continue to spout factual inaccuracies and Pro-Soviet rhetoric. You literally suggest we take the pre WW2 position of allowing a global bully and invader to take over a sovereign state. Do you really think appeasement works?

Simple question, Do you feel like Russia and Putin are our friends or our enemies?

I have an opinion that's been stated more than once mush brain. Look it up if that interested.

 

[yoshi121374]

I have an opinion that's been stated more than once mush brain. Look it up if that interested.

And it's completely wrong and idiotic. You continue to suggest that we try appeasement and separation exactly as in pre-WW2. Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[TigerGrowls]

And it's completely wrong and idiotic. You continue to suggest that we try appeasement and separation exactly as in pre-WW2. Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

I have not suggested appeasement at all. Wrong again.

 

[yoshi121374]

I have not suggested appeasement at all. Wrong again.

You have absolutely stated that Russia should be given the land that they have taken from Ukraine. That is exactly Appeasement.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't you take some time out and let the adults talk for a while. Children are made to be seen, not heard.

 

[TigerGrowls]

You have absolutely stated that Russia should be given the land that they have taken from Ukraine. That is exactly Appeasement.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't you take some time out and let the adults talk for a while. Children are made to be seen, not heard.

I did not say Russia should be given anything. Your comprehension is low. Russia took the land and that's a reality.

 

[acwill07]

You have absolutely stated that Russia should be given the land that they have taken from Ukraine. That is exactly Appeasement.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Why don't you take some time out and let the adults talk for a while. Children are made to be seen, not heard.

If ignorance was grounds to be banned, @TigerGrowls would’ve been sent to Chile a couple years ago if not earlier.

 

[yoshi121374]

I did not say Russia should be given anything. Your comprehension is low. Russia took the land and that's a reality.

And you suggest that we should let them keep the land that they took. That's literally the same thing as what Europe did with Hitler.

 

[TigerGrowls]

And you suggest that we should let them keep the land that they took. That's literally the same thing as what Europe did with Hitler.

You @acwill07 and the others go ahead and head to Ukraine and sign up to fight if you feel that strongly.

 

[CU Alumnus]

Exactly. Who knows how it will end, but Russia isn’t doing well. They are bleeding troops and resources. Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting increasingly advanced Western weapons, tanks and air defense systems.

The world is learning exactly how bad the Russian military is.

Their only advantage is they are willing to send millions of their own people to slaughter to achieve an objective.

 

[CU Alumnus]

And you suggest that we should let them keep the land that they took. That's literally the same thing as what Europe did with Hitler.

I am amazed at how few people see that. We all know what Putin wants to do. He is getting more and more agressive - there was an incident with a US Drone a few days ago, and there have been more Russian overflights of US/Allied bases.

Funny part is - Russia does not have an aircraft that stands a chance in hell in a dogfight with any of the modern US stuff. The only think keeping them airborne is US restraint.

F35 vs a Mig-29 would be bad comedy. F22 vs Mig-29 would be over precisely when the F22 pilot decided it should be over (picture a cat playing with a mouse). And their '5th gen' fighter is hot garbage (plus they only have about a half dozen of them).

What Russia REALLY does not have though, is MONEY.

 

[CU Alumnus]

I am still not completely sure how I feel about the situation in Ukraine. I am all over the place but one thing I do know is that what we've spent is peanuts if we end up breaking the back of the Russian regime. The world now sees what a paper tiger the Russian armed forces are. We've gotten so much from this exchange. It's not very well considered to say otherwise. How far we should go is another matter entirely.

Agreed 100%.

We are also getting a chance to see how US equipment will do vs Russian stuff, without wasting US lives.

That is more valuable than people realize.

 

[scotchtiger]

Their only advantage is they are willing to send millions of their own people to slaughter to achieve an objective.

Russia’s willingness to send hundreds of thousands of its people to slaughter, their intentional mass murder of Ukrainian civilians, the raping of women and children, the torture of civilians and the abduction of 10s of thousands of Ukrainian children are just shockingly horrific for modern times.

But according to Tucker and @TigerGrowls it’s just a simple border dispute 🙄.

 

[acwill07]

Russia’s willingness to send hundreds of thousands of its people to slaughter, their intentional mass murder of Ukrainian civilians, the raping of women and children, the torture of civilians and the abduction of 10s of thousands of Ukrainian children are just shockingly horrific for modern times.

But according to Tucker and @TigerGrowls it’s just a simple border dispute 🙄.

Like I said, @TigerGrowls is willfully ignorant. He always has been. He only believes things that are written by a small handful of conservative websites that have zero credibility.

That’s why he’s been spouting stupidity since well before the 2020 election.

 

[yoshi121374]

Russia’s willingness to send hundreds of thousands of its people to slaughter, their intentional mass murder of Ukrainian civilians, the raping of women and children, the torture of civilians and the abduction of 10s of thousands of Ukrainian children are just shockingly horrific for modern times.

But according to Tucker and @TigerGrowls it’s just a simple border dispute 🙄.

What some, like those you've mentioned, fail to realize is this situation and the US/Western response has forced Russia and Putin to literally show the entire world who and what they are. The can claim to be civilized, they claim to want to negotiate in good faith, but the reality is laid bare for all the world to see. This situation has badly damaged Russia and shown them to be the the bad actor we have said they are.

They have also shown that they are woefully overmatched militarily. If it were not for their Nuke arsenal, Russia wouldn't have a chance in hell against most of the major countries in the world. Russia is completely outmatched and trying to fight a 70-80's era ground war in the 2020's. The scene of long columns of Russian tanks destroyed by Drones is inpossibke to forget.

 

[scotchtiger]

What some, like those you've mentioned, fail to realize is this situation and the US/Western response has forced Russia and Putin to literally show the entire world who and what they are. The can claim to be civilized, they claim to want to negotiate in good faith, but the reality is laid bare for all the world to see. This situation has badly damaged Russia and shown them to be the the bad actor we have said they are.

They have also shown that they are woefully overmatched militarily. If it were not for their Nuke arsenal, Russia wouldn't have a chance in hell against most of the major countries in the world. Russia is completely outmatched and trying to fight a 70-80's era ground war in the 2020's. The scene of long columns of Russian tanks destroyed by Drones is inpossibke to forget.

The military aspect is fascinating to me. We’ve now watched Russia wage war for over a year. The gap between them and the USA is wayyyy bigger than anyone thought. We could defeat them in weeks if we wanted to and would have air superiority within days.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Agreed 100%.

We are also getting a chance to see how US equipment will do vs Russian stuff, without wasting US lives.

That is more valuable than people realize.

No matter the nationality there are probably already over a million people dead. This is not worth it just to gauge equipment and thats not the reason the US is involved and we all know that. They want to take Putin out and hopefully install a pro western person thats in their pocket.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

No matter the nationality there are probably already over a million people dead. This is not worth it just to gauge equipment and thats not the reason the US is involved and we all know that. They want to take Putin out and hopefully install a pro western person thats in their pocket.

Last part sounds great to me