Where did I attempt to make any argument? I simply asked you two very direct questions?
OT: shooting in VA beach
- Thread starter iceheart08
- Start date
ITT: pro-gunners are still pro gun, anti-gunners are still anti gun. 11 people are dead. Ho hum, just another day in America.
The 2nd amendment is to prevent government tyranny.. the lives lost in shootings here pail in comparison to those murdered by tyrants such as Hitler, Mao and Stalin.
In the United States?
I missed that part of US History. Or more likely I was sleeping that day.
That might be half the country. Lots of folks don’t know squat about metal health or addiction. And of course it’s hard to until someone you love falls in that category
My point exactly.. the 2nd amendment is the reason it hasnt happened and wont happen here. First comes restriction followed by registration leading to confiscations and then mass murder.
You are making his point... the reason it doesn’t happen in the United States is because we have the guns to shoot back just as our founding fathers intended
This thread predictably went off the cliff quickly, but just FYI , no matter how many guns you have, you are no match for the US Army. If they want your sh!t, they will take it and there’s nothing you can do about it. We rely on our institutions - and when they are undermined and faith is lost, it gets dangerous. Your guns will not save you from tyranny. It’s a nice idea, or a good movie plot, but it’s a fantasy. I’ll go back to my hole now.
Some people are too young to remember why the Japanese Emperor said it was a terrible idea to invade the US
You assume that they would break their oath to the constitution and fire on their people. Fire on their friends and family. Highly likely in a scenario where the shit hits the fan you end up with a fractured military, where you damn better be prepared as a citizen.
Your fantasy relies on everyone in the US military being on the tyrannical governments side and not the peoples. Btw the British army was once the greatest army in the world until 13 colonies took it to them
I agree on an armed populous being a deterrent for foreign adversaries. I think that’s still the case on a lot of levels. People seemed to be talking about protecting themselves from our own government. Which I think is a different story.
If you read back thru this thread you'll see I'm about as pro-2nd Amendment as you'll find. But in the current era and environment this argument that pro-gun folks throw out: "we need our guns so's we can overthrow a tyrannical government" just plays bad. Yea I get it it's true but it makes pro-2nd Amdt folks sound and look like nut jobs. Why? Because you ain't gonna overthrow the government! It's been tried. Dudes like RE Lee and Stonewall Jackson tried to break away from the nation and failed. You think some wackos in a cabin in Idaho are gonna succeed today?
As for the overthrow the tyrannical government issue: Yes it's true, that was a bedrock principle of the amendment. But what is lost is the knowledge the Founders had of the practical circumstances of our nation's founding. We were a frontier nation and they knew it. Nowadays when people mention "frontier" they think of Wyoming or New Mexico and Crazy Horse and Geronimo. But in the late 18th Century the frontier was places like Albany, the Mohawk valley, Winchester VA. The USA wouldn't be the USA without the ability of the pioneers and settlers to defend themselves. Self defense back then didn't mean protecting your home from somebody trying to steal the TV. It meant life or death protection from indian attack, or in the South: slave revolt (and that can't be underestimated.)
So yea, I understand the guy's post, but I generally find that argument exasperating.
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It was Yamamoto, the guy who came up with the Pearl Harbor idea. He actually studied at Harvard.
He said it's impossible to successfully invade the US as "there's a gun underneath every bush"
That goes to a previous comment about never assume our military will turn on us without internal retribution for the treason against the people.
I disagree
US gun owners outnumber the Army by over 300 to 1 and could easily cut off every supply route and source of power and food..
It would be massive gorilla warfare.. the army would be easily identifiable targets while civilians could completely blend in. Yes the army could kill a lot of people but no way could they kill 300 million guerilla fighters or even 10% of 300mil
Ok point taken, but those in power control the military, when they don’t, they aren’t in power anymore .
Yep, who’s ready for football?
Not being a jerk , but I don’t think that’s realistic at all. I mean , I would hope you would be right , but I think there is no chance of that happening. Anyway, agree to disagree , when’s kickoff ?
Or we could acknowledge all of them are a problem and try to fix all of the issues you listed rather than negating the massive issue of gun violence by explaining the larger issues at hand.
We can’t have a conversation about guns because no one wants to listen to a middle ground answer, you have to either Charlton Heston or a hippie from Seattle, there’s no middle ground to be had. The amount of guns in our country contributes to the gun related deaths we see. Failing to believe that is foolish. It’s also not the only cause Thar contributes to gun violence. Like many issues, there’s many contributing factors, but we won’t ever get anywhere because of extreme political affiliation, fear of losing votes, or fiscal loss.
I get it, letting the government take away our right to bear arms is a terrible idea, but I also think it’s hilarious that many of the same folks that feel as strongly as they do about gun control fail to see all of the rights the government has taken away already, or simply don’t care that they have.
The answer is all of us. We control more than the common man believes and the government wants us to believe. If everyone simply stopped going to Wal Mart, Wal Mart wouldn’t exist, it’s that simply.
Look at the deeper issues. What changed over time? Is the answer putting more guns in schools to protect from gun violence? There was a time when we didn’t even consider needing armed guards at a school because gun violence in our schools was a non issue. To me the answer is finding a way to have a culture where walking into a school with a gun is unthinkable.
It’s no different than health issues. We can spend Billions on finding cures/treatment for diabetes/heart disease etc, but until we address the root cause, which is our food, diet and lifestyle, it will only continue to get worse.
find it exasperating all you want but the facts are we don’t have to overthrow a tyrannical government that never becomes tyrannical because they fear a well armed population
Yes, a VERY SMALL, SELECT few people own fully auto weapons....that were produced before 1986. Produced AFTER 1986, completely illegal for private ownership. The only place you find weapons like that will be at Class 3 Firearm shooting ranges where they are kept. No one is running around with a SAW, although FN does make a single shot version of it for around $8000. 100% semi-auto, not full-auto. And a full auto pre-86 rifle is closer to the price of a Civic.
I believe there have only been about 2 murders that involved a fully automatic rifle, and one was perpetrated by a police officer who had access normal folks wouldn't have. So yes, in a sense, full auto is banned for civilian use.
Not my point. We shouldnt see this as a gun problem. This is a mental health problem. Healthy people dont do these things.
But since you brought it up... no crazy people shouldnt have guns. But too many people are crazy. Comercials every day sell stupid people pills , promising they wont be sad. Everything is now a disease, no need to take responsibility, just claim illness and take pills.
But guns invoke a greater emotionall response, so a democracy will focus on it as it will drive votes.
Yeah, i never get the whole anti depressant arguement. It would be like a fat dude having a heart attack and dying and everyone saying, "i bet the fat turd was on blood pressure meds".
Well, of course he was, he was fat. And of course the mentally ill is on an anti depressant, they were severely depressed.
It's a loss of Jesus in our nation. When you deny the Son you deny his father's hand. Just hold on It's going to get worse the more, I don't want to say the more liberal we get. I think it's not taking God's word serious and being real with it regardless of the political sides! I can't stand either one and I'm very conservative, but that was Jesus and bible taught.
So there's a lot of back and forth but no solutions. We know its unrealistic to take all guns away. Also it's asinine to categorize or put homicide, in the same light as suicide/drug overdose, obesity and cigarettes.
I love guns. They are fun to use for target practice, hunting, protection etc. Most of the reasons to have and own a gun are good reasons and for those I hate to use a cliche but since that part isn't broken let's not try to fix it. I do believe any reasonable person can tell we have a growing problem with the misuse of guns( if you don't want to say epidemic) and is growing. Let's set aside all race, politics and creeds for a just a minute.
Let's simply be humans for just a little while and imagine the 11 people who died yesterday were our parents, children, siblings, best friends, coworkers etc. I don't know who to say to invoke the feelings needed but whoever that special person is imagine it was that person laying in the morgue right now. As a matter of fact lets take it a step further imagine you are one of the 11 in the morgue right now.
The only good thing about that is once you are done imagining that horrific sight you never have to think about it ever again. For someone else that's the sad reality for them as you read this. It's been said many times and in many ways one of the hardest things to do as humans is to change and accept change. So I won't ask you to do that because it's to hard however just become open to change. Through openness a solution can be reached.
I love guns. They are fun to use for target practice, hunting, protection etc. Most of the reasons to have and own a gun are good reasons and for those I hate to use a cliche but since that part isn't broken let's not try to fix it. I do believe any reasonable person can tell we have a growing problem with the misuse of guns( if you don't want to say epidemic) and is growing. Let's set aside all race, politics and creeds for a just a minute.
Let's simply be humans for just a little while and imagine the 11 people who died yesterday were our parents, children, siblings, best friends, coworkers etc. I don't know who to say to invoke the feelings needed but whoever that special person is imagine it was that person laying in the morgue right now. As a matter of fact lets take it a step further imagine you are one of the 11 in the morgue right now.
The only good thing about that is once you are done imagining that horrific sight you never have to think about it ever again. For someone else that's the sad reality for them as you read this. It's been said many times and in many ways one of the hardest things to do as humans is to change and accept change. So I won't ask you to do that because it's to hard however just become open to change. Through openness a solution can be reached.
Except for the fact that they still ultimately answer to the queen of England. We solved that issue over 250 years ago, WITH GUNS.
When I was a kid, the high school boys had shot guns in the racks of their pickup trucks at school, and mass shootings like this never, ever, EVER happened.
Our culture has become sick.
We've driften from God; 2 parents at home has become unusual, and video games and social media dominate the lives of our kids.
We need to get back where we were in those areas 50 years ago.
Our culture has become sick.
We've driften from God; 2 parents at home has become unusual, and video games and social media dominate the lives of our kids.
We need to get back where we were in those areas 50 years ago.
There’s a large portion of elected officials in congress that blame the victim when a woman is raped so it’s not surprising people are blaming the victims in a defenseless surprise slaughter at work
“We have to do something, but I’m not taking any suggestions from the other side.”
Hahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha you’re dead weight in this debate
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