Way OT...... just Curious are you a Christian?

[tigerworx]

I'm a sinner saved by Grace. More than 25 years.

I have a Masters in Theology, I'm half way through a Doctorate of Ministry. I teach Apologetics, Comparative Relions and Ethics among other subjects.

Christianity started as a Cult, it was called "the way" ( read Acts), Mormonism started as a cult. It is now considered a major world religion. I agree it's a false religion, but it's no longer a cult. Cults are measured by numbers of followers these days.

There is FAR more proof of God than most are familiar with. The Cosmological Argument states that that something DOES NOT come from NOTHING, science holds to this truth but gives themselves a pass when it comes to the Big Bang Theory.

The Teleological Argument states that the design in nature proves their a designer. The human eye, planets around the sun, Fibonacci sequence, etc.

The Moral Argument states that if we all evolved from lava ponds we wouldn't have universal taboos like rape, murder. Pushing grandma down stairs, etc

Since these 3 arguments show the existence of a God/Creator we can turn our attention the God of the Christian scriptures.

There are the historical writings of non believing Roman and Jewish historians Flavious Josephus, Tactitus, Suetonius and others who recognize the miracle working Savior, Jesus.

There were more than 225 historical writings that attest to Jesus ministry and miracles. Through the canonization process they were limited to the most credible ( linked to an Apostle, useful to be preached and or used in worship) those are the 27 in your New Testament.

There are more than 25,000 archeological findings which prove the Scriptures to be true.
Confirming the Hittite Empire, the person of Pontious Pilate, the record of the walls of Jericho falling outward.

The real crux of the Chrianity debate is who is Jesus (see next post)

Love it

............many times I have asked people: What would an eye be..........before it became an eye?
What USE would a 'non eye' have? HOW would people have gotten around?
Boy, I'd love to have been that guy with the first "evolved" eye...........do what you want?

It's asinine to assume an eye 'worked' it's way into usefullness...............in ANY creature.
It HAD to be 'created'............oh. I lost some people there........but I hope they all will give me a shout.

 

[Howard's Jock]

I have no judgmental attitude! I've sinned more than anyone in this thread. Guaranteed!

I'll take that bet!

 

[tigerworx]

You might be. That is the point.

And, what if one of us is wrong?

Trying to live the 'Jesus life' (which is impossible for us on our own) is not such a bad thing.
He never hated. He did no wrong. I believe, as the Bible says, he never sinned.

Geesh, that should be a goal for ALL of us. Christians or not.

Seems to me.

 

[Essolover4]

but after all, you're just curious

I'm not curious about that. Quit making stuff up. My original post was are you a real Christian?

 

[Essolover4]

I'll take that bet!

Lol,,,,, say when?

 

[Tigers&Bravos]

Who is flaming?

If I could be allowed to flame...........it wouldn't be in this thread.

You and @Essolover4

You are allowed to flame despite what your parents told you. You where just born that way. It's ok.

 

[tigerfs]

 

[tigerworx]

You and @Essolover4

You are allowed to flame despite what your parents told you. You where just born that way. It's ok.

Man, you got some anger with life issues.

Come to the Tent Meeting for free beer.

 

[tigerfs]

I'm not curious about that. Quit making stuff up. My original post was are you a real Christian?

dude, read your original post. I am just quoting you. What the F am I making up? Judge me

 

[PainClinic]

The existence of the physical person of Jesus is not disputed. He really lived, walked the face of the earth, performed miracles, famously died by crucifixion, was resurrected, and ascended into heaven.

The Roman's don't dispute his existence, neither do the Jews. What is disputed is his resurrection. By the account of the scriptures, he was dead when he was taken off of cross.
Google "on the physical death of Christ PDF" it's a 9 page postmortem that 4 doctors wrote on the biblical account of the death of Christ in the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association)

The R's and J's developed some pretty absurd theories to disprove the resurrection, but they all fail to explain why they was no body in the tomb. Like he didn't die on the cross he only fainted, he had a secret twin brother, they went to the wrong tomb even though it was only 3 days later and it was less than 50 yards from the crux scene, mass hallucinations, Etc.

ALL OF THESE are to try and explain away the resurrection. The reason theY had to is because there was no BODY IN THE TOMB. All the R's and J'sgad to do was produce a body and they would disprove Christianity, but they could not. The disciples were in hiding fearing the same would happen to them. So they had no opportunity to formulate a plan and take on Roman guards to perpetuate a lie

One more thing about the disciples. If they had stolen the body, they wouldn't have devoted their lives to spreading the teachings of a false savior and dying in the process. 15 of the 16 major players of the NT died for their faith in gruesome ways, the 15th, gospel author John, was boiled alive but survived, he lived out his days under house arrest on the Greek isle of Patmos

So, if you want proof of the invisible eternal God, that's what I have for you. But the same burden would be on you to provide "proof" of electricity or love.

We, as Christians, are called to have "faith" but i hope you can see it is in no way a "blind faith".

 

[BDubya80]

The existence of the physical person of Jesus is not disputed. He really lived, walked the face of the earth, performed miracles, famously died by crucifixion, was resurrected, and ascended into heaven.

The Roman's don't dispute his existence, neither do the Jews. What is disputed is his resurrection. By the account of the scriptures, he was dead when he was taken off of cross.
Google "on the physical death of Christ PDF" it's a 9 page postmortem that 4 doctors wrote on the biblical account of the death of Christ in the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association)

The R's and J's developed some pretty absurd theories to disprove the resurrection, but they all fail to explain why they was no body in the tomb. Like he didn't die on the cross he only fainted, he had a secret twin brother, they went to the wrong tomb even though it was only 3 days later and it was less than 50 yards from the crux scene, mass hallucinations, Etc.

ALL OF THESE are to try and explain away the resurrection. The reason theY had to is because there was no BODY IN THE TOMB. All the R's and J'sgad to do was produce a body and they would disprove Christianity, but they could not. The disciples were in hiding fearing the same would happen to them. So they had no opportunity to formulate a plan and take on Roman guards to perpetuate a lie

One more thing about the disciples. If they had stolen the body, they wouldn't have devoted their lives to spreading the teachings of a false savior and dying in the process. 15 of the 16 major players of the NT died for their faith in gruesome ways, the 15th, gospel author John, was boiled alive but survived, he lived out his days under house arrest on the Greek isle of Patmos

So, if you want proof of the invisible eternal God, that's what I have for you. But the same burden would be on you to provide "proof" of electricity or love.

We, as Christians, are called to have "faith" but i hope you can see it is in no way a "blind faith".

Nope, BS!!! Without physical proof you do not have a box to piss in. Please try again.

 

[doodog]

Yep.

 

[BDubya80]

Two words that totally put the myth of Jesus to bed. "Prove it"....

 

[TigersInCali]

 

[BDubya80]

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You totally have the best posts. Whether it's this, or helping me fvck with Rob (tigerdouche2)...

 

[PainClinic]

Nope, BS!!! Without physical proof you do not have a box to piss in. Please try again.

You're actually arguing for Christianity, since there is no body that aligns with the physical resurrection and ascension that the scriptures attest to.

You actually want a body to exist to nullify the scriptures and Christian belief.

 

[tigerworx]

Nope, BS!!! Without physical proof you do not have a box to piss in. Please try again.

asking for a friend............And you do?

 

[Tigerdad56]

I was reading through this thing just shaking my head, but this was hilarious

 

[BDubya80]

You're actually arguing for Christianity, since there is no body that aligns with the physical resurrection and ascension that the scriptures attest to.

You actually want a body to exist to nullify the scriptures and Christian belief.

A body? Hell, something!!!! Which so called Christianity DOES NOT HAVE.

 

[BDubya80]

asking for a friend............And you do?

Dvmbass, im an atheist, so ummmmmmm no...

 

[Essolover4]

The existence of the physical person of Jesus is not disputed. He really lived, walked the face of the earth, performed miracles, famously died by crucifixion, was resurrected, and ascended into heaven.

The Roman's don't dispute his existence, neither do the Jews. What is disputed is his resurrection. By the account of the scriptures, he was dead when he was taken off of cross.
Google "on the physical death of Christ PDF" it's a 9 page postmortem that 4 doctors wrote on the biblical account of the death of Christ in the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association)

The R's and J's developed some pretty absurd theories to disprove the resurrection, but they all fail to explain why they was no body in the tomb. Like he didn't die on the cross he only fainted, he had a secret twin brother, they went to the wrong tomb even though it was only 3 days later and it was less than 50 yards from the crux scene, mass hallucinations, Etc.

ALL OF THESE are to try and explain away the resurrection. The reason theY had to is because there was no BODY IN THE TOMB. All the R's and J'sgad to do was produce a body and they would disprove Christianity, but they could not. The disciples were in hiding fearing the same would happen to them. So they had no opportunity to formulate a plan and take on Roman guards to perpetuate a lie

One more thing about the disciples. If they had stolen the body, they wouldn't have devoted their lives to spreading the teachings of a false savior and dying in the process. 15 of the 16 major players of the NT died for their faith in gruesome ways, the 15th, gospel author John, was boiled alive but survived, he lived out his days under house arrest on the Greek isle of Patmos

So, if you want proof of the invisible eternal God, that's what I have for you. But the same burden would be on you to provide "proof" of electricity or love.

We, as Christians, are called to have "faith" but i hope you can see it is in no way a "blind faith".[/QUO
Thank you!

 

[wta21080]

I was reading through this thing just shaking my head, but this was hilarious

Please don't shake your head for me.

 

[PainClinic]

Nope, BS!!! Without physical proof you do not have a box to piss in. Please try again.

I think what your asking for is empirical proof, which is great, but emperical proof is a form of a repeated process that produces the same result. Think mentors in a coke bottle

There is no empirical proof of Jesus, George Washington, Napolean or even... you!

 

[tiger_echoes]

The existence of the physical person of Jesus is not disputed. He really lived, walked the face of the earth, performed miracles, famously died by crucifixion, was resurrected, and ascended into heaven.

The Roman's don't dispute his existence, neither do the Jews. What is disputed is his resurrection. By the account of the scriptures, he was dead when he was taken off of cross.
Google "on the physical death of Christ PDF" it's a 9 page postmortem that 4 doctors wrote on the biblical account of the death of Christ in the JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association)

The R's and J's developed some pretty absurd theories to disprove the resurrection, but they all fail to explain why they was no body in the tomb. Like he didn't die on the cross he only fainted, he had a secret twin brother, they went to the wrong tomb even though it was only 3 days later and it was less than 50 yards from the crux scene, mass hallucinations, Etc.

ALL OF THESE are to try and explain away the resurrection. The reason theY had to is because there was no BODY IN THE TOMB. All the R's and J'sgad to do was produce a body and they would disprove Christianity, but they could not. The disciples were in hiding fearing the same would happen to them. So they had no opportunity to formulate a plan and take on Roman guards to perpetuate a lie

One more thing about the disciples. If they had stolen the body, they wouldn't have devoted their lives to spreading the teachings of a false savior and dying in the process. 15 of the 16 major players of the NT died for their faith in gruesome ways, the 15th, gospel author John, was boiled alive but survived, he lived out his days under house arrest on the Greek isle of Patmos

So, if you want proof of the invisible eternal God, that's what I have for you. But the same burden would be on you to provide "proof" of electricity or love.

We, as Christians, are called to have "faith" but i hope you can see it is in no way a "blind faith".

Since you are a theologian, what do you say about the person who lived in a part of the world that never knew the story/religion of Jesus or even if they did, maybe they were taught another religion from childhood and were a firm believer in that religion, so they dismissed it as a "false religion"...why are some ppl "lucky" to have known this religion and others not so lucky to have known it? This scenario could be applied to any religion of your choosing.

 

[Trading Tiger]

You have zero proof that God exists. Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. You can believe all you want, but you don't know it for sure.

There are many people who go to church and think because they show up in their dress or suit every Sunday for one hour makes them a Christian. They are the most full of shit kind of people that exist in the world today.

I have proof that God exists.

And I agree with your second paragraph as well. Just because you say you're a Christian, or think that you're a Christian, does not mean that you actually are a Christian.

Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father, who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?'. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Those wackos at Hillborough Baptist Church, or whatever it's called, that like to protest soldiers' funerals, or gay pride parades, those people are not Christians. They have completely missed the point. Matthew 7:1-3: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

I am a Christian, but only because I do not hold a perfect God responsible for the actions of imperfect people.

 

[tigerfs]

 

[BDubya80]

I think what your asking for is empirical proof, which is great, but emperical proof is a form of a repeated process that produces the same result. Think mentors in a coke bottle

There is no empirical proof of Jesus, George Washington, Napolean or even... you!

You're right, George Washington or Napoleon never existed since there is no empirical proof. I can understand now why you believe in God LOL

 

[tigerworx]

Dvmbass, im an atheist, so ummmmmmm no...

But you don't have to be.

And, asking for a friend, why do you spend so much time here in this thread (and maybe in life) spending time on what you 'think' does not exist?

Man, I'm not asking condescendingly, I'm just asking honestly.

PM me if you'd like

 

[BDubya80]

I have proof that God exists.

And I agree with your second paragraph as well. Just because you say you're a Christian, or think that you're a Christian, does not mean that you actually are a Christian.

Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father, who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?'. Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Those wackos at Hillborough Baptist Church, or whatever it's called, that like to protest soldiers' funerals, or gay pride parades, those people are not Christians. They have completely missed the point. Matthew 7:1-3: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye, and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

I am a Christian, but only because I do not hold a perfect God responsible for the actions of imperfect people.

Still no proof...

 

[Essolover4]

Dvmbass, im an atheist, so ummmmmmm no...

Let's go fishing together! No agenda .....other than wetting a line

 

[BDubya80]

But you don't have to be.

And, asking for a friend, why do you spend so much time here in this thread (and maybe in life) spending time on what you 'think' does not exist?

Man, I'm not asking condescendingly, I'm just asking honestly.

PM me if you'd like

I just like fvcking with little brains. And you can stop with the asking for a friend stuff. Stop being 11 and start acting like an adult...

 

[BDubya80]

Let's go fishing together! Imo agenda .....other than wetting a line

God doesnt like asshvles. You better go ask for forgiveness!

 

[wewatt08]

 

[tigerworx]

Since you are a theologian, what do you say about the person who lived in a part of the world that never knew the story/religion of Jesus or even if they did, maybe they were taught another religion from childhood and were a firm believer in that religion, so they dismissed it as a "false religion"...why are some ppl "lucky" to have known this religion and others not so lucky to have known it? This scenario could be applied to any religion of your choosing.

GREAT question.

 

[Tigers&Bravos]

I'm a sinner saved by Grace. More than 25 years.

I have a Masters in Theology, I'm half way through a Doctorate of Ministry. I teach Apologetics, Comparative Relions and Ethics among other subjects.

Christianity started as a Cult, it was called "the way" ( read Acts), Mormonism started as a cult. It is now considered a major world religion. I agree it's a false religion, but it's no longer a cult. Cults are measured by numbers of followers these days.

There is FAR more proof of God than most are familiar with. The Cosmological Argument states that that something DOES NOT come from NOTHING, science holds to this truth but gives themselves a pass when it comes to the Big Bang Theory.

The Teleological Argument states that the design in nature proves their a designer. The human eye, planets around the sun, Fibonacci sequence, etc.

The Moral Argument states that if we all evolved from lava ponds we wouldn't have universal taboos like rape, murder. Pushing grandma down stairs, etc

Since these 3 arguments show the existence of a God/Creator we can turn our attention the God of the Christian scriptures.

There are the historical writings of non believing Roman and Jewish historians Flavious Josephus, Tactitus, Suetonius and others who recognize the miracle working Savior, Jesus.

There were more than 225 historical writings that attest to Jesus ministry and miracles. Through the canonization process they were limited to the most credible ( linked to an Apostle, useful to be preached and or used in worship) those are the 27 in your New Testament.

There are more than 25,000 archeological findings which prove the Scriptures to be true.
Confirming the Hittite Empire, the person of Pontious Pilate, the record of the walls of Jericho falling outward.

The real crux of the Chrianity debate is who is Jesus (see next post)

Also took MANY theology classes, Emory graduate school. You are taking leaps here but not explaining everything to the board. Josephus is largely thought to have been truthful in his writing but his writings have been redacted and altered, by christians. Any honest theology teacher would tell you that his Testimonium Favianum cannot be confirm because of this.

Also I like how you gloss over the Designer and Cosmological. Explain to me how humans exist for 100,000 years (fact) but in year ~95,000 God appears to humans (in the Middle East only) and decides to save only one group. Right.

Any the gospel Mark don't get me started on it.

 

[hillf02]

My sisters call me a faitheist. I am not a believer but I go to church because my mom is the director of music at what was my church growing up, so I go to support her.

 

[BDubya80]

GREAT question.

Your getting too deep for @tigerworx...

 

[PainClinic]

Since you are a theologian, what do you say about the person who lived in a part of the world that never knew the story/religion of Jesus or even if they did, maybe they were taught another religion from childhood and were a firm believer in that religion, so they dismissed it as a "false religion"...why are some ppl "lucky" to have known this religion and others not so lucky to have known it? This scenario could be applied to any religion of your choosing.

My beliefs are in line with the scriotures Romans 6:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

And Romans 3:23- for the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Translated: we are all deserving death and hell no matter what we were taught or not taught, the fact that ANY of us (undeservedly) get heaven is because of his love and mercy. That's why Christians talk about Christ (evangelism)

 

[Jacksoon]

Yes I am a Christian, each and everyday. Yes, I am a sinner. But by the grace of God, He forgives me when I ask for forgiveness and am sincere in my request.

 

[rliner82]

Absolutely