Trump for the win!

[hopefultiger13]

Wow, Trump pulls us out of Syria. I'm down with this. We do not belong in the middle east. Let these folks kill each other off without our help.

Seems kind of harsh to let the Turks slaughter our Kurdish former allies, but were always allies because we hated the same people and that's about it. The US paid the Kurds a TON of money and equipment for their fighting ISIS and Hussain. Now we don't need them and it's time to cut them loose. It's really not our problem what happens to them now.

This has always been Trump's way, and now it's the American way. We stopped being the good guys LONG before Trump was elected President.

I just wonder if Trump will go through with it, or is this just his standard way of dealing with scandal (make a crisis somewhere else to distract the media).

 

[nytigerfan]

Wow, Trump pulls us out of Syria. I'm down with this. We do not belong in the middle east. Let these folks kill each other off without our help.

Seems kind of harsh to let the Turks slaughter our Kurdish former allies, but were always allies because we hated the same people and that's about it. The US paid the Kurds a TON of money and equipment for their fighting ISIS and Hussain. Now we don't need them and it's time to cut them loose. It's really not our problem what happens to them now.

This has always been Trump's way, and now it's the American way. We stopped being the good guys LONG before Trump was elected President.

I just wonder if Trump will go through with it, or is this just his standard way of dealing with scandal (make a crisis somewhere else to distract the media).

Trump is leaving our christian allies to be slaughtered by the muslim horde. When dealing with the backlash, Trump tweets that if the Turks do slaughter the Kurds (our allies) then he will impose economic sanctions on them. Seems fair. According to at least one televangelist, Trump is losing Jesus' vote.

Pat Robertson: “The President, who allowed Khashoggi to be cut in pieces without any repercussions, is now allowing the Christians and the Kurds to be massacred by the Turks.... He is in danger of losing the mandate of heaven if he permits this to happen.”

 

[Rychek4]

Trump is leaving our christian allies to be slaughtered by the muslim horde. When dealing with the backlash, Trump tweets that if the Turks do slaughter the Kurds (our allies) then he will impose economic sanctions on them. Seems fair. According to at least one televangelist, Trump is losing Jesus' vote.

Pat Robertson: “The President, who allowed Khashoggi to be cut in pieces without any repercussions, is now allowing the Christians and the Kurds to be massacred by the Turks.... He is in danger of losing the mandate of heaven if he permits this to happen.”

He is losing Senate allies over this too. At a bad time.

 

[appalachiatiger]

this is an interesting move and outside his line of thinking.

we need the transcripts. i would be more interested in this than ukraine.

 

[appalachiatiger]

https://www.debka.com/us-prevents-turkish-invasion-of-syria-by-caoc-intelligence-cutoff/











US prevents Turkish invasion of Syria by CAOC intelligence cutoff
Oct 8, 2019 @ 8:16 Donald Trump, Kurds, US-Turkey-Syria

DEBKAfile sources refute the overblown reporting of a major US pullback from northeastern Syria and reveal that after 100-150 troops leave two observation posts, 2,250 remain in position. Our military sources disclose that, early Tuesday, Oct. 8, the Pentagon cut the Turkish army and air force off from US command and intelligence and the US regional Surveillance and Reconnaissance Task Force. Without these resources, Ankara cannot conduct any major aerial operation in Syria or elsewhere or launch an offensive operation outside Turkey because it would be denied air cover.

Initial reporting on the US decision to leave two observation posts and so abandon the Kurds to a Turkish invasion was highly exaggerated due to diverse – often competing – motives. Those two posts on the Turkish border are not located in Kurdish territory. For now, there is no sign of the bulk of US forces quitting their air and other bases in Syria. Neither are Turkish forces seen to be preparing to attack Kurdish towns in northern Syria. American training and its flow of equipment continue uninterrupted for the Syrian Defense Forces, of which the Kurdish YPG is the backbone. As an added deterrent, President Donald Trump warned Turkey on Monday night if it “goes too far” – meaning that if President Recep Erdogan carries out his repeated threats to attack the Syrian Kurds to clear them out of the regions abutting on the Turkish border – the Turks “would suffer the wrath of an extremely decimated economy” which is already in a very bad way.

 

[hopefultiger13]

America First you snowflakes!!! It's in our best interest to withdraw from the area. So what if they were our allies? We don't need them NOW. If they were more useful to the US NOW this wouldn't be happening to them. This is what Trump does... he's done it his whole life. And now this is what America does, because he's running the show.

So quit your Christian whining... If you disagree with Trump and say something about it, you are a TRAITOR.

 

[appalachiatiger]

America First you snowflakes!!! It's in our best interest to withdraw from the area. So what if they were our allies? We don't need them NOW. If they were more useful to the US NOW this wouldn't be happening to them. This is what Trump does... he's done it his whole life. And now this is what America does, because he's running the show.

So quit your Christian whining... If you disagree with Trump and say something about it, you are a TRAITOR.

Remember when bush abandoned them. They were slaughtered.

 

[hopefultiger13]

this is an interesting move and outside his line of thinking.

we need the transcripts. i would be more interested in this than ukraine.

Dude... This is ENTIRELY in Trump's line of thinking. He ran on the platform of America First. He said it was time that Saudi Arabia fought their own wars and that we needed to get out of the Middle East. This is what that looks like. Plus Trump knows what's best for this country better than you do. You'll be voting for him... you know it, I know it, and Trump knows it. Just like the folks in the coal industry. You come out on election day and vote Trump. Then you go sit down (unless you agree with Trump).and wait until he needs you again.

 

[appalachiatiger]

BTW-

American military personnel lives are more important than Kurdish lives.

So if decision to give a life, sorry Kurds.

 

[hopefultiger13]

Remember when bush abandoned them. They were slaughtered.

Yes. You don't think our Stable Genius knows that? So what? They did what we needed them to do and we paid them well for it. We aren't the world police.. they can take care of themselves.

 

[hopefultiger13]

BTW-

American military personnel lives are more important than Kurdish lives.

So if decision to give a life, sorry Kurds.

NOW you are talking like a REAL TRUMP supporter. America First Baby!!

 

[clemsontyger04]

America First you snowflakes!!! It's in our best interest to withdraw from the area. So what if they were our allies? We don't need them NOW. If they were more useful to the US NOW this wouldn't be happening to them. This is what Trump does... he's done it his whole life. And now this is what America does, because he's running the show.

So quit your Christian whining... If you disagree with Trump and say something about it, you are a TRAITOR.

Well i guess im a traitor because Trump is a ****ing asshole and a benedict arnold who is destroying everything this country was built on.

 

[Rychek4]

https://www.debka.com/us-prevents-turkish-invasion-of-syria-by-caoc-intelligence-cutoff/











US prevents Turkish invasion of Syria by CAOC intelligence cutoff
Oct 8, 2019 @ 8:16 Donald Trump, Kurds, US-Turkey-Syria

DEBKAfile sources refute the overblown reporting of a major US pullback from northeastern Syria and reveal that after 100-150 troops leave two observation posts, 2,250 remain in position. Our military sources disclose that, early Tuesday, Oct. 8, the Pentagon cut the Turkish army and air force off from US command and intelligence and the US regional Surveillance and Reconnaissance Task Force. Without these resources, Ankara cannot conduct any major aerial operation in Syria or elsewhere or launch an offensive operation outside Turkey because it would be denied air cover.

Initial reporting on the US decision to leave two observation posts and so abandon the Kurds to a Turkish invasion was highly exaggerated due to diverse – often competing – motives. Those two posts on the Turkish border are not located in Kurdish territory. For now, there is no sign of the bulk of US forces quitting their air and other bases in Syria. Neither are Turkish forces seen to be preparing to attack Kurdish towns in northern Syria. American training and its flow of equipment continue uninterrupted for the Syrian Defense Forces, of which the Kurdish YPG is the backbone. As an added deterrent, President Donald Trump warned Turkey on Monday night if it “goes too far” – meaning that if President Recep Erdogan carries out his repeated threats to attack the Syrian Kurds to clear them out of the regions abutting on the Turkish border – the Turks “would suffer the wrath of an extremely decimated economy” which is already in a very bad way.

From Fox News:
Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

What do you think @appalachiatiger ?

You got a conspiracy theory for this? You got an excuse for this?

 

[nytigerfan]

From Fox News:
Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

What do you think @appalachiatiger ?

You got a conspiracy theory for this? You got an excuse for this?

I’ll jump in here... clearly that distraught special forces soldier is deep state... and a Democrat

 

[appalachiatiger]

From Fox News:
Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

What do you think @appalachiatiger ?

You got a conspiracy theory for this? You got an excuse for this?

if this is true, and they did not follow the path. then i hope trump does destroy turkeys economy like he said he would.

trump said there was a specific set of rules that the turks had to follow. if our guys are confirming this. then trump specificallymsaid he would fukk turkey up without firing a shot.

 

[appalachiatiger]

hey why does it always have to be an all or nothing mentality with you guys.

i dont agree with everything trump does.

i didnt disagree with obama sometimes.

agreed with bush and clinton sometimes.

does everyone have to agree with 100% of what someone does?

makes no sense to me.

 

[appalachiatiger]

looks like the impeachment inquiry is another big dud.

we got transcript. we got both parties in call stating no quid pro quo.

game over.

 

[nytigerfan]

if this is true, and they did not follow the path. then i hope trump does destroy turkeys economy like he said he would.

trump said there was a specific set of rules that the turks had to follow. if our guys are confirming this. then trump specificallymsaid he would fukk turkey up without firing a shot.

to me this another problem with Trump. He is pointing his finger and saying... "If you are bad and slaughter millions of christian kurds, I am going to slap economic sanctions on you." That is like if my kid says to me "I am going to kick the neighbor's ass." and I say, "OK but don't kill him or I will take away your allowance for a month."

It is crazy to me that a known draft dodger is making a decision to sacrifice foreigners who have actually fought for our country. Disgusting.

 

[appalachiatiger]

to me this another problem with Trump. He is pointing his finger and saying... "If you are bad and slaughter millions of christian kurds, I am going to slap economic sanctions on you." That is like if my kid says to me "I am going to kick the neighbor's ass." and I say, "OK but don't kill him or I will take away your allowance for a month."

It is crazy to me that a known draft dodger is making a decision to sacrifice foreigners who have actually fought for our country. Disgusting.

Be interesting who is playing chess and who is playing checkers

 

[Rychek4]

hey why does it always have to be an all or nothing mentality with you guys.

i dont agree with everything trump does.

i didnt disagree with obama sometimes.

agreed with bush and clinton sometimes.

What would it take for you to stop supporting someone you voted for? What would it take for you to start supporting someone you voted against?

I am a Republican and I will vote Democrat in the next election. Because my principals are bigger than the cult of personality that drives the Republican party right now.

 

[TigerGrowls]

America First you snowflakes!!! It's in our best interest to withdraw from the area. So what if they were our allies? We don't need them NOW. If they were more useful to the US NOW this wouldn't be happening to them. This is what Trump does... he's done it his whole life. And now this is what America does, because he's running the show.

So quit your Christian whining... If you disagree with Trump and say something about it, you are a TRAITOR.

You are a cheap Borat wannabe. I fully support troop withdrawal from Syria. Promises made..............Promises kept. I do not support us staying there for another 20 years or more because we cant dessert our Kurd allies.....NO! Conflicts are unfortunate and there are casualites of war. The Kurds have been there fighting in that region for hundreds if not thousands of years and they will probably still be there fighting in a thousand more. The US entered into a business venture with them at the time and its over now. The Kurds will still be there....will not be annihilated. You and your lib buddies need to come down off your high horsey.

 

[appalachiatiger]

the kurds should move. probably better jobs in europe.

its time to leave afghanistan, iraq, and syria.

 

[appalachiatiger]

What would it take for you to stop supporting someone you voted for? What would it take for you to start supporting someone you voted against?

I am a Republican and I will vote Democrat in the next election. Because my principals are bigger than the cult of personality that drives the Republican party right now.

man i love his policies.

but support for freedom of speech and right to bear arms and defend the constitution and fly the flag proudly, pledge with heart, and work for capitalism. trade deals that are even stephen or favors american workers,
and ending our status as world policemen. defend our borders as forcibly as possible, make us energy independent so gas doesnt spike like it did,

oh and

study climate change and reach for the stars with a new reinvigorated race to space.

thats what i support, not the person

 

[hopefultiger13]

You are a cheap Borat wannabe. I fully support troop withdrawal from Syria. Promises made..............Promises kept. I do not support us staying there for another 20 years or more because we cant dessert our Kurd allies.....NO! Conflicts are unfortunate and there are casualites of war. The Kurds have been there fighting in that region for hundreds if not thousands of years and they will probably still be there fighting in a thousand more. The US entered into a business venture with them at the time and its over now. The Kurds will still be there....will not be annihilated. You and your lib buddies need to come down off your high horsey.

Exactly. It's just business. The Kurds will be fine... Like I said, America First. This is the way Trump said he would do things in America and this is now the way America does things. You can now count on America to have your back, just the same way you can count on Trump to have your back. And I absolutely agree. THIS is absolutely the Trump that was elected in 2016. Promises made and promises kept.

By the way, here's an article from back in January of this year from the failing New York Times where Trump has discussed pulling us out of NATO:

Click

Can anyone see a situation where say Putin puts troops into Poland and Trump "delays" putting the US into a conflict? I bet the rest of NATO can.

Seriously, though. I do actually support getting the F out of the middle east for sure. But I also support not stabbing our allies in the back as soon as they are not useful right now. But this is the way Trump has ALWAYS done business. Now it's the way America does business.

 

[appalachiatiger]

Exactly. It's just business. The Kurds will be fine... Like I said, America First. This is the way Trump said he would do things in America and this is now the way America does things. You can now count on America to have your back, just the same way you can count on Trump to have your back. And I absolutely agree. THIS is absolutely the Trump that was elected in 2016. Promises made and promises kept.

By the way, here's an article from back in January of this year from the failing New York Times where Trump has discussed pulling us out of NATO:

Click

Can anyone see a situation where say Putin puts troops into Poland and Trump "delays" putting the US into a conflict? I bet the rest of NATO can.

Seriously, though. I do actually support getting the F out of the middle east for sure. But I also support not stabbing our allies in the back as soon as they are not useful right now. But this is the way Trump has ALWAYS done business. Now it's the way America does business.

our allies have been stabbing us in the back since world war 2.

 

[appalachiatiger]

trumps biggest mistake was not cleaning out the state dept and the white house and rehire all positions.

obama and bush sore losing holdovers are causing ineffiencies and delays.

 

[Woody1405]

At some point there is a moral issue. Standing by your most faithful allies in the Middle East is one. That buffoon who lives in the White House said that the Kurds didn't help us in WWII to justify his abandoning them. Here's a news flash for the imbecile. Turkey fought for the Axis in WWII. What a dumbass!

 

[hopefultiger13]

our allies have been stabbing us in the back since world war 2.

Please tell us about this?

As far as I know, the NATO treaty's mutual defense agreement has been used EXACTLY one time since WW2. That was on September 11, 2001. And every single NATO allies rallied to our defense. Every. Single. One. Has a NATO country ever attacked the US? Am I missing something?

So I'm not sure that you know what "stabbing someone in the back" actually means.

 

[hopefultiger13]

At some point there is a moral issue. Standing by your most faithful allies in the Middle East is one. That buffoon who lives in the White House said that the Kurds didn't help us in WWII to justify his abandoning them. Here's a news flash for the imbecile. Turkey fought for the Axis in WWII. What a dumbass!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Are you freaking KIDDING me? Trump and "moral issue"? Now I didn't vote for Trump. And I despise him. But I've NEVER EVER expected him to do the right or moral thing. I'd love to hear from his supporters on this. Does ANYONE think Trump does the right thing just because it's the right thing to do? Since when does Trump do anything that doesn't benefit him in the long run?

And now America is doing business like Trump. If it doesn't benefit us, we are out. Period. And if a few million Kurds die. Well, that's a damn shame, but NOT our problem. Maybe we'll slap some sanctions or something to show "support".

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, moral issues.....

 

[nytigerfan]

trumps biggest mistake was not cleaning out the state dept and the white house and rehire all positions.

obama and bush sore losing holdovers are causing ineffiencies and delays.

LOL. here is what is causing inefficiencies and delays...

1. Trump is constantly having to solve issues that he created through his own incompetence. This Turkey-Kurds conflict is the latest. Last night at his rally he was talking about mediating a deal between them. So one week ago, he showed great weakness in giving Turkey the green light to slaughter our christian allies. Now he wants to mediate a deal? That is like me setting my neighbors lawn on fire and then offering heroically to introduce them to a good landscaping company.

2. Trump continually takes the word of foreign dictators over his own military and intelligence advisors. Putin, Un, and now Erdoghan. You can label these patriots as "deep state" all you want, but while Trump has been starting scam universities and pilfering money from his own charities, these people have been defending our freedom.

3. Trump continually claims victories prematurely. He has many times claimed ISIS was defeated when they were not. Trump leaves the field at the end of the 3rd quarter and runs to a rally to brag to his mouth breathing supporters about how great he is. Meanwhile the other team keeps scoring.

 

[CU Alumnus]

From Fox News:
Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

What do you think @appalachiatiger ?

You got a conspiracy theory for this? You got an excuse for this?

I'm split on this whole thing. On one hand, I think we do need to get out of these endless wars in the middle east. Either get it stabilized or let it burn. Starting to not care which.

On the other - I don't think this is where I would have started. And the Kurds that have worked with the US have been good allies. Abandoning them seems just.....wrong.

But then again - not all Kurds are our allies. It's a diverse group. Some have ties to terrorist groups I think. And Turkey is an ally in name only.

But then again - a lot of people that were allies of Trump are upset about this. People don't break alliances (in these numbers) without reason.

But on the other hand - Al-Assad kept a pretty good lid on terrorism in Syria. Actually so did Hussein. They weren't "nice guys" but I think in the middle east, nice guys do finish last.

Then again.......crap. In the "information age" I honestly think we know LESS about what is going on that we did before. Or it feels that way anyway.

 

[hopefultiger13]

the kurds should move. probably better jobs in europe.

its time to leave afghanistan, iraq, and syria.

Dude, do you EVER think before you post?

There are 35 million Kurds according to Wikipedia. There are < 800 million Europeans (and that includes Parts of Russia and Ukraine). So you are looking at increasing the population of Europe by 5% or more. Do you REALLY think there are that many jobs? And what about getting them there. Forget food, water, medical needs and whatever. Let's say we get 100 busses that can hold 50 people. And those buses never break down and run 24/7/365.

To rough out the distance, Let's call the trip from the middle of Syria to Berlin(more or less the middle of Europe). According to THIS site that's a 39 hour trip (one way). Let's call it 40 hours for easy math and to even it out, they don't ever stop to rest/eat/take bathroom breaks. So that's an 80 hour round trip.

So let's do some math:

100 buses with 50 people each.
80 hour round trips
Buses never stop/break down and constantly are working w/o regard to holidays/weekends or anything.

That's 5000 people in 80 hours = 1 "trip"

So 35,000,000 divided by 5000 = 7000 "trips"

80 hours time 7000 = 560,000 hours or about 23,333 days or almost 64 years (assuming that no one has any kids).

---------------------------------------

Thoughts?... Nah, just make it happen right?

 

[Rychek4]

man i love his policies.

but support for freedom of speech and right to bear arms and defend the constitution and fly the flag proudly, pledge with heart, and work for capitalism. trade deals that are even stephen or favors american workers,
and ending our status as world policemen. defend our borders as forcibly as possible, make us energy independent so gas doesnt spike like it did,

oh and

study climate change and reach for the stars with a new reinvigorated race to space.

thats what i support, not the person

Well, he has exploded the debt, stagnated the economy, allowed ISIS opportunity to become resurgent (with his Syrian move), built almost zero miles of new wall, and failed to cancel SLS the worst NASA pork project in history.

So okay, I guess?

 

[CU Alumnus]

He is losing Senate allies over this too. At a bad time.

Graham has publicly disagreed with Trump on this. So has Nikki Haley, fwiw.

At least it shows that Graham isn't 100% in lockstep. I like the newer, more fiery Graham personally.

 

[Rychek4]

In the "information age" I honestly think we know LESS about what is going on that we did before. Or it feels that way anyway.

People need to realize that common sense isn't real and critical thinking isn't common.

 

[hopefultiger13]

I'm split on this whole thing. On one hand, I think we do need to get out of these endless wars in the middle east. Either get it stabilized or let it burn. Starting to not care which.

On the other - I don't think this is where I would have started. And the Kurds that have worked with the US have been good allies. Abandoning them seems just.....wrong.

But then again - not all Kurds are our allies. It's a diverse group. Some have ties to terrorist groups I think. And Turkey is an ally in name only.

But then again - a lot of people that were allies of Trump are upset about this. People don't break alliances (in these numbers) without reason.

Then again.......crap. In the "information age" I honestly think we know LESS about what is going on that we did before. Or it feels that way anyway.

Wow, I wish I could like this more than once. Seriously, this is one of the best posts I've ever seen on the subject.

I agree that we don't need to be there. I hate to be a "Debby Downer", but people have been killing each other in the Middle East since man has had records. Everyone has blood on their hands. I honestly don't know if it can be fixed by anyone. We certainly have been trying for most of a century and have made NO Progress. Right or wrong, establishing Israel after WW2 hasn't helped with that. I don't see a way forward, even with Jared negotiating for us.

When you are doing something (even the right thing) and getting absolutely nowhere... And you have no prospects of making progress. Sometimes you just have to stop. I think this is one of those times. We are just pissing money down an endless well.

One thing I do disagree with is your information age comment. We do know more. It's always been this way (we just didn't know that) and this complicated. If it were easy, this problem would be solved. The fact is, we are learning (the general public) JUST how bad things have always been.

 

[CU Alumnus]

Dude, do you EVER think before you post?

There are 35 million Kurds according to Wikipedia. There are < 800 million Europeans (and that includes Parts of Russia and Ukraine). So you are looking at increasing the population of Europe by 5% or more. Do you REALLY think there are that many jobs? And what about getting them there. Forget food, water, medical needs and whatever. Let's say we get 100 busses that can hold 50 people. And those buses never break down and run 24/7/365.

To rough out the distance, Let's call the trip from the middle of Syria to Berlin(more or less the middle of Europe). According to THIS site that's a 39 hour trip (one way). Let's call it 40 hours for easy math and to even it out, they don't ever stop to rest/eat/take bathroom breaks. So that's an 80 hour round trip.

So let's do some math:

100 buses with 50 people each.
80 hour round trips
Buses never stop/break down and constantly are working w/o regard to holidays/weekends or anything.

That's 5000 people in 80 hours = 1 "trip"

So 35,000,000 divided by 5000 = 7000 "trips"

80 hours time 7000 = 560,000 hours or about 23,333 days or almost 64 years (assuming that no one has any kids).

---------------------------------------

Thoughts?... Nah, just make it happen right?

I've come to the conclusion that the absolute WRONG thing to do in situations like this is to permanently move the 'victims." Then the 'bad guys' take over more territory. To me, it's like if your roof is leaking so you decide that the fix is to move your couch.

I'm near the point of it should just be a simple mandate:

"You ass-brains stay on this side, and you ass-brains stay on that side. If either of you ass-clowns decides to cross this line, your capital city gets glassed."

If only things were that simple. And in that case, somebody's gotta monitor the line.

(For the record, the above solution is apparently similar to what Al-Assad and Hussein did. And while neither of these guys is to be admired and they were both ass-heads, it did work for the most part........)

 

[hopefultiger13]

People need to realize that common sense isn't real and critical thinking isn't common.

Don't say this out loud. I realized this in my mid 20's and it took me YEARS to recover.

When you get into the details of just about any problem involving people, virtually NOTHING is absolutely black and white, or right and wrong. The world is made up of shades of gray. The best we can do is to evaluate and try and understand as best we can and make decisions accordingly, knowing that these decisions won't be perfect and someone is always going to get screwed over.

The more left or right leaning a person is, the more that they tend toward a Black and White view of the (their) world IMHO. There are very few absolutes out there, but operating under the delusion that there are is EASY. You don't have to do that critical thinking thing, just react and yell about how the other side is horrible.

 

[CU Alumnus]

Please tell us about this?

As far as I know, the NATO treaty's mutual defense agreement has been used EXACTLY one time since WW2. That was on September 11, 2001. And every single NATO allies rallied to our defense. Every. Single. One. Has a NATO country ever attacked the US? Am I missing something?

So I'm not sure that you know what "stabbing someone in the back" actually means.

Spain denied US F-111s the right to fly over their airspace for the attack on Libya in 1986.

I don't think England provided troops for the invasion of Iraq (although that decision is at worst questionable as the whole Iraq thing was a mess).

Not sure either qualify for what you are saying.

We all spy on each other. The Brits, French (non-NATO but an ally), Russians, Germans, Israelis, etc - all spy on us. And we spy on them. And all of us fvck around in each other's elections. Usually not blatantly ("ballot box stuffing") but giving support - often surreptitiously - to candidates that favor our views.

 

[CU Alumnus]

One thing I do disagree with is your information age comment. We do know more. It's always been this way (we just didn't know that) and this complicated. If it were easy, this problem would be solved. The fact is, we are learning (the general public) JUST how bad things have always been.

Honestly - I think you're right. It just doesn't feel that way though.