Taxpayer First Budget

[ClemsonGentleman]

Love the concept. Haven't dug into the details, but this is absolutely the right mindset.


"This is the first time that an administration has written a budget through the perspective of the people paying the taxes," Mulvaney told reporters Monday night.

...calls for $800 billion in cuts to Medicaid and a $193 billion reduction in food stamps over the next ten years.

"We are no longer going to measure compassion by the number of people on those programs. We're going to measure compassion by how many people we can get off those programs," said Mulvaney, who added that there would be a work requirement for some Americans to continue receiving food stamps.

"If you're on food stamps and you're able-bodied, then we need you to go to work," Mulvaney said.

This statement is false. We didn't have a permanent personal income tax until 1913. Prior to that, the USA did have a tax from time to time during wars.

Back when we operated on a balanced budget.

 

[JP09191978]

Spending cuts are needed. You can't tax your way out of every problem. Our budget problems relate to spending, not revenue.

Also, you aren't giving favors to the rich, it is their money, you are just lowering their rates that were jacked up during the last 8 years.

you can't say everyone needs to pay their fare share, then tax one group at 42%, then have 50% of the population not paying anything. that is purely punitive.

 

[CLT-Tiger]

Most people who are what you would define as "rich" own businesses - or equity stakes in businesses - and therefore would never pay 42%. They pay much lower taxes by taking income through dividends. People who work for other people and make lots of money do get screwed on taxes though, I will give you that.

Not sure I'm following you here, why would you want to do this? Assuming you're not a LLC or S Corp, which pay taxes on net income on a pass through basis. You're describing leaving money in a C Corp, which would pay the corporate rate on that money and then issue a dividend to be taxed again at personal short term capital gains?

 

[alex24]

thanks! i am, actually. i have a good job where i make a decent amount of money, and like to spend my off-time volunteering in areas less fortunate than myself and try to get involved in helping local politicians i believe in.

i care about the general state of affairs for people other than those in my own income bracket, though, which is something that seems to elude the republican party.

I take care of employees, friends, and family. I have a responsibility to them it doesn't matter what tax bracket they are in. People I don't know I don't owe them shit. Doesn't matter what tax bracket they are in either. Doesn't matter the color of their skin, religion, or what gender they identify them selves as. They are not my responsibility. Now since I am a compassionate guy I have no issue with my tax money going to handicap or really disable people. You know paraplegic, blind, def, missing limbs, retarded that kinda stuff. I really believe we should do much more for those people. But any able body person who chooses not to better themselves or their families I have no sympathy for them. And as far as I'm concerned you are an enabler by giving in to their BS. Just like the guy that gives the crack head $5 knowing what he is going to do with it.

 

[blythewood tigers]

Where you are wrong is that wealthy guy eventually will be able to afford another bigger newer airplane keeping many people in jobs at Boeing for example. I'm only half serious with that example.

To me you have to give the largest tax breaks to the upper middle class. Those are the people who are small business owners trying to live the American dream and they are employing people. But thanks to regulation and taxes they will never grow their companies.

On the other hand screw corporate America. They have one mom and pap store at a time ended the American dream. It's nearly impossible to start any kind of retail business now thanks to them. Unfortunately they control our money and now because of the high corporate taxes they pay here most of them are looking at taking our money to other countries. Those countries are happy to allow them to do business at a discounted rate. If we don't do something soon to keep those large corporations here we will be the third world country.

What I would love to see is the government give large corporate tax breaks to manufacturing corporations. And tax the shit out of retail corporations. That way all the manufacturing jobs will come back to America and it will level the playing field for the small guy.

A lot of opinion based on emotion here. Not a bad opinion, IMO, but is it economically workable?
Go back in time, lets say the 1950's because this was basically the "peek" of the middle class as we know it today. In that time period, a man worked (not trying to be sexist or anything just stating facts) and the mom stayed at home with the kids. A home that was in the process of being paid off. They usually had a car that was paid for and no credit card debt. This scenario was very real and the man didn't even have to graduate from college to accomplish this feat because there was usually tremendous upward mobility where he worked.

What was the secret ingredient that allowed this process to work so marvelously? Before you answer, remind yourself that this man was paid more, had better benefits (higher standard of living) than any other man in any other country AND his job was secure! No outsourcing! What happened? If you guess right I will give you a million dollars.... just kidding.

You are saying "tax the sh*t out of retail corporations", "that way all the manufacturing jobs will come back to America", is that the answer? Force American jobs back? Why didn't we have to use force in the 1950's?

 

[hopefultiger13]

I said generational ladder climbing. That is, work hard to give your kids a chance at a better life than you had. It's what our great-grandparents, grandparents and parents have done - but apparently today we think that the government should do it.

And it's absolutely possible. My great grand-parents were mostly immigrants.

My grandparents either grew up in an orphanage, in a small house with 13 kids, etc. They worked at the shipyard, post office, wrapped presents part time at a local department store, etc.

My dad was the first in his family to go to college. My mom also went to college even though neither of her parents did. Both went to Clemson. They were/are upper-middle class or better depending on the definition. They were able to send me to private school and pay for Clemson.

My wife and I now do well and will be able to give our son every advantage possible. Each generation has worked hard to give their kids the best opportunities in life and as a result, each generation has done better than the last. That's how we do it in America.

This is a great story and is almost cliche in it's "American Dream" ness.

What you may not realize is that your families’ story is EXTRAORDINARY and not ORDINARY. Your family has had 3 generations of hard workers that did all the right things and made sure that their kids got the benefits of their hard work. I’m sure that things weren’t all warm and fuzzy the whole time either. I bet that there were times when your folks and grandparents were struggling just to keep things together. You are a success story of your own hard work and the hard work of the folks who came before you.

But because you are where you are, you may not realize how difficult the success story that your family have lived is to actually achieve. You probably don’t recognize yourself as extraordinary, but you are. So were your parents and grandparents. Not everyone can do what you and your family did. And in point of fact, most can’t. That’s NOT how we do it in America, although we all LOVE these kind of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” stories.

Your grandparents had the moral and mental fortitude to bust their asses for their entire lives just to give their kids a shot at college. Your parents had the intelligence to be successful in college and to continue to better themselves their whole lives to give you a prime private secondary education and send you to a great college. You’ve done the same for your kids.

I’d compare this to an NFL RB looking around the local WalMart and wondering why everyone can’t run as fast as he can. He may think that most of these people simply don’t work as hard as he does (and he’d be right… you don’t get where he is w/o that solid work ethic and drive to succeed) But the fact also is, that most of the folks around him couldn’t do what he does even with the best work ethic. He is a product of his genetics as well and you simply can’t learn the size, athletic ability, and speed he has.

 

[scott in nashville]

"I" is capitalized if we are doing the grammar nazi thing.

It isn't a republican or democarat thing on "helping people"

I am on a committee for a charity that has raised the money to build a nursing home in Nicaragua in less than 5 years and continues to provide funds to operate it every year. Sending a group of youth over there next month to work and do a mission...shhh don't tell anyone because only democrats do stuff like that

I volunteer for all sorts of things...man I guess I need to start eluding charities and helping people

Please don't take this as an affront, it isn't intended that way. Why did you choose to work on this committee vs one focused on the needy in the US?

I get asked to work on charity projects a lot and sometimes struggle with deciding to help my fellow man vs my fellow American.

 

[nytigerfan]

Not sure I'm following you here, why would you want to do this? Assuming you're not a LLC or S Corp, which pay taxes on net income on a pass through basis. You're describing leaving money in a C Corp, which would pay the corporate rate on that money and then issue a dividend to be taxed again at personal short term capital gains?

I have an S Corp. Even if you have a C Corp though, there are easy ways to get around significant corporate tax by setting up multiple business entities and paying yourself as a consultant vs an employee of the business.

 

[hopefultiger13]

Where you are wrong is that wealthy guy eventually will be able to afford another bigger newer airplane keeping many people in jobs at Boeing for example. I'm only half serious with that example.

To me you have to give the largest tax breaks to the upper middle class. Those are the people who are small business owners trying to live the American dream and they are employing people. But thanks to regulation and taxes they will never grow their companies.

On the other hand screw corporate America. They have one mom and pap store at a time ended the American dream. It's nearly impossible to start any kind of retail business now thanks to them. Unfortunately they control our money and now because of the high corporate taxes they pay here most of them are looking at taking our money to other countries. Those countries are happy to allow them to do business at a discounted rate. If we don't do something soon to keep those large corporations here we will be the third world country.

What I would love to see is the government give large corporate tax breaks to manufacturing corporations. And tax the shit out of retail corporations. That way all the manufacturing jobs will come back to America and it will level the playing field for the small guy.

I agree with this completely!!

 

[clemsonpaw00]

I don't think anyone can disagree with helping the poor. The disagreement is how best to do that. Calling people a dumbass probably isn't the best way to help others understand your point of view, unless your name is Jonathan Gruber. Actually, I think he used the phrases "the stupidity of the American voter" and "lack of transparency" were critical to get the ACA approved. I am all for everyone having access of healthcare, good jobs, etc., but it's really hard to support the democratic views when they freely admit the stupidity of the base allowed the bill to pass. His words, not mine.

Clearly he is one guy, and I don't think all democrats think the way he does. It just seems very ironic that for the party that claims to want to help the poor relying on their stupidity doesn't seem very empathetic.

That being said, do I think Donald Trump had some stupid people vote for him? Of course, but not everyone that voted for Trump is stupid and vice versa. When did difference of opinion start meaning that someone else is stupid or greedy?

because this isn't like voting for george bush, mitt romney, marco rubio, bob dole, etc. if it were that, i would still strongly disagree with their platforms. but i'd at least see the possible merits in voting for those individuals and would abstain from using personal attacks.

but this is donald trump, a man whose political career was literally launched off a ridiculous and frankly racist lie that our former president wasn't born in this country; a man who played off people's fears of those different than themselves to form his base; a man who embraces a post-truth era of "alternative facts" and "fake news"; and perhaps most notably, a man who is so incompetent and possibly senile that his own aides have said this of him:

Three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.

so yeah, i'll happily call people that voted for him a dumbass without a second thought.

 

[nmerritt11]

Please don't take this as an affront, it isn't intended that way. Why did you choose to work on this committee vs one focused on the needy in the US?

I get asked to work on charity projects a lot and sometimes struggle with deciding to help my fellow man vs my fellow American.

We do both...we help stateside and foreign. No offense taken.

 

[tigdad]

Sucks if you are a child and your parent(s) are poor to lower-middle class.

Nah, might force some boyfriends to get up off the couch and get a job. I own a small business that employs 15 people....responsible workers are in ridiculously short supply. Every business owner I know has the same number one problem....can't find help.

In our country, if you finish high school, wait until you're married to have children and stay married, you will not be poor unless there is some unusual extenuating circumstance. The "safety net" has destroyed the family and the working class.

 

[alex24]

because this isn't like voting for george bush, mitt romney, marco rubio, bob dole, etc. if it were that, i would still strongly disagree with their platforms. but i'd at least see the possible merits in voting for those individuals and would abstain from using personal attacks.

but this is donald trump, a man whose political career was literally launched off a ridiculous and frankly racist lie that our former president wasn't born in this country; a man who played off people's fears of those different than themselves to form his base; a man who embraces a post-truth era of "alternative facts" and "fake news"; and perhaps most notably, a man who is so incompetent and possibly senile that his own aides have said this of him:

Three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.

so yeah, i'll happily call people that voted for him a dumbass without a second thought.

Actually he grew a large base because most people agreed with what he said. Sorry you weren't one of those people and you are really really but hurt. But it is what it is. Merica!

 

[blythewood tigers]

I have an S Corp. Even if you have a C Corp though, there are easy ways to get around significant corporate tax by setting up multiple business entities and paying yourself as a consultant vs an employee of the business.

Yeah, we thought the S corp was the way to go, coming from a C corp. We learned our lesson, should've just staying where we were, basically zero advantage when the numbers are done crunching.

Our accountant informed us that going the "multiple business entities" route would raise red flags once you get to a point (we have 3) with the IRS. We basically have to "bonus" our way out of a huge tax windfall, its not bad for the employees obviously but we did this as a C corp. S corps are overrated IMO.

 

[CLT-Tiger]

I have an S Corp. Even if you have a C Corp though, there are easy ways to get around significant corporate tax by setting up multiple business entities and paying yourself as a consultant vs an employee of the business.

None of this makes any sense, is your CPA in jail yet? I have multiple entities, but it's not like I can have one pay the other and not capture that as income.

 

[scotchtiger]

I don't think anyone can disagree with helping the poor. The disagreement is how best to do that. Calling people a dumbass probably isn't the best way to help others understand your point of view...

Exactly. Focusing on job training, financial coaching and even some level of "family" coaching are still efforts to help the poor and will be far more valuable to the long-term welfare of this demographic than peddling handouts. That doesn't make us mean, selfish or "dumbasses." It means we want to solve the problem instead of enable it.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

Exactly. Focusing on job training, financial coaching and even some level of "family" coaching are still efforts to help the poor and will be far more valuable to the long-term welfare of this demographic than peddling handouts. That doesn't make us mean, selfish or "dumbasses." It means we want to solve the problem instead of enable it.

you're a dumbass because you voted for trump. again, don't give a shit what reasons you use to justify it, but it will remain a scarlet letter for any voter of his moving forward.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

lol. the republican party, everyone.

 

[StSimonsIslandTiger]

yes, because hillary would definitely be enraptured in an impeachment scandal as this point in her term had she been elected. continue to believe in your ridiculous false equivalency that hillary was anywhere near as bad a candidate as trump.

There is no impeachment scandal. You are listening to media and Democrats and falling for fake news.. What has Trump done illegal or wrong? Be specific.

Economy has accelerated in strength since his election. High level business leaders are thrilled with Trump. Unemployment with improvement. Stock market strengthening. Financial statements are strengthening for many American companies. Consumer confidence has gained significantly.

Many foreign leaders are pleased with Trump over Obama as prez. Just look at how the middle eastern world responded to him these last few days. He got the red carpet in Saudi Arabia with the Muslim world leaders largely in attendance as well as in Israel. They did nothing of the sort for Obama whom they mostly disdained for favoring terrorists and ISIS and Iran in many policies and actions.

 

[scotchtiger]

you're a dumbass because you voted for trump. again, don't give a shit what reasons you use to justify it, but it will remain a scarlet letter for any voter of his moving forward.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

i think the most offensive thing about republicans on this board is how unimaginative their sense of humor is.

 

[nytigerfan]

Yeah, we thought the S corp was the way to go, coming from a C corp. We learned our lesson, should've just staying where we were, basically zero advantage when the numbers are done crunching.

Our accountant informed us that going the "multiple business entities" route would raise red flags once you get to a point (we have 3) with the IRS. We basically have to "bonus" our way out of a huge tax windfall, its not bad for the employees obviously but we did this as a C corp. S corps are overrated IMO.

Really depends on what type of business you have, for me the s corp is great. The sad thimg is that the "multiple business route" is used by almost all major corporations, but it is the small businesses that they go after. I got audited for my very first year in business when I netted an amazing $20k in income. Not sure what they thought they would recover from me, meanwhile there were others hiding millions in income.

 

[nytigerfan]

None of this makes any sense, is your CPA in jail yet? I have multiple entities, but it's not like I can have one pay the other and not capture that as income.

I could take more of my time to explain how it all works, but since you clearly already know everything, what's the point? Good luck to you in your business.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

There is no impeachment scandal. You are listening to media and Democrats and falling for fake news.. What has Trump done illegal or wrong? Be specific.

Economy has accelerated in strength since his election. High level business leaders are thrilled with Trump. Unemployment with improvement. Stock market strengthening. Financial statements are strengthening for many American companies. Consumer confidence has gained significantly.

Many foreign leaders are pleased with Trump over Obama as prez. Just look at how the middle eastern world responded to him these last few days. He got the red carpet in Saudi Arabia with the Muslim world leaders largely in attendance as well as in Israel. They did nothing of the sort for Obama whom they mostly disdained for favoring terrorists and ISIS and Iran in many policies and actions.

oh my. this post, in a thread full of awful ones, has to take the cake.

you realize saudi arabia is an authoritarian regime where the common citizen has pretty much no say? and do you realize that it's also notorious for being a haven for terrorist activity and terrorist funding, often times through the ruling class? i literally don't think you could've conjured up a stupider post if you had tried. especially because the vast majority of other countries, including allies, are embarrassed as hell by our presidential choice.

 

[IMBlessed]

I said generational ladder climbing. That is, work hard to give your kids a chance at a better life than you had. It's what our great-grandparents, grandparents and parents have done - but apparently today we think that the government should do it.

And it's absolutely possible. My great grand-parents were mostly immigrants.

My grandparents either grew up in an orphanage, in a small house with 13 kids, etc. They worked at the shipyard, post office, wrapped presents part time at a local department store, etc.

My dad was the first in his family to go to college. My mom also went to college even though neither of her parents did. Both went to Clemson. They were/are upper-middle class or better depending on the definition. They were able to send me to private school and pay for Clemson.

My wife and I now do well and will be able to give our son every advantage possible. Each generation has worked hard to give their kids the best opportunities in life and as a result, each generation has done better than the last. That's how we do it in America.

Man congratulations, Seriously, to your parents & grandparents. I know your leery of government assistance, however jobs @ the shipyard & post office Are Government Jobs! Also, who financed you parents education from CU, just interested, maybe student loans..maybe government program, just maybe?!

 

[IMBlessed]

Bill Clinton wasn't conservative, he was a moderate. In addition to the things you mention above, he was also in favor of universal health care. Aside from banging interns with cigars, he and I share a lot of beliefs. I have no problem with the death penalty, limited welfare, and control of our borders. I'm anti gun control. Yet I'm pro choice, don't have a problem with gay folks having rights, and think that it's OK to deny gun ownership to crazy/mentally impaired people. In other words, a moderate.

No moderate can get elected by either party right now b/c the fringe elements of both parties are running the show. There's no desire to compromise or work with each other. Clinton was able to balance the budget b/c he worked with house and senate republicans as well as his own party to get things done. Obama shat the bed in 2009-10 even though he had majorities in both houses b/c he wouldn't work with the other side. Trump is currently shiiting the bed for the same reason.

I Love this post but believe there was no way Sen. McConnel would allow any in his party to work with Pres. Obama. Also, Mr. Boehner wanted to & had many compromises proposals with Pres. Obama just to have one wing of his party revolt. Also, Mr. Trump is not getting anything done for Americans because he is not to be trusted & Russia!

 

[IMBlessed]

I agree with everything you said, but I never said Bill was a conservative. I said he was more conservative that people think he was.

and the obstructionism started during Bushes last two years. That is when all this crap went to shit. Reagan, GHWB, Bill and GW all worked with congress to get things done. Then Dems turned on Bush his last two years and blocked everything, then Republicans did it with Obama, now Dems are doing it with Trump and it is only going to get worse.

That is pretty much it Mr. Munson. The 2 years against Pres. Bush & those 8 years of obstruction against Pres. Obama, did more to hurt our country than anything. That birther & Supreme Court in your face obstruction will be felt for decades. Now I pray a grown up will enter the room but unfortunately that will not be the current administration!

 

[broncosrb26]

I'm only 3 pages in but this may be the most civil, cogent, and level headed political thread I've seen on TI

 

[shortbus22]

Me reading this thread...

I am being taxed too much. Too many Americans think they are above doing grunt work or manual labor, but then they have a bunch of pvssies (read: dems) running around defending them. The tight assed conservatives (read: repubs) are so damn dumb they elected Trump as the face of their party, and they wonder why the other side is pissed. I personally have no idea how to fix any of this, but I definitely don't trust Trump to get it done. If both sides would stop firing at each other and acting like lunatics, maybe we could eventually find a middle ground. But that makes too much sense. Amen.

 

[IMBlessed]

This is a partial answer. Of course investing can HELP create jobs, but that's not the whole story either. If it was, Kansas and Louisianna would be models of Republican success instead of pits of financial disaster that can barely provide basic services.

For a simple example. Let's say I own a several paint supply stores that provide paint to the surrounding counties. This business is doing well and I'm making good profits. Now taxes are cut and both myself and my business partners have extra money to invest. Do I say "Oh I have extra money, let me hire some people and open some extra stores"? Maybe.

But first, I'm going to look at the market. Where am I going to open these new stores? Is there enough new demand that they will be successful? What about staffing levels? If my current stores are running smoothly and are able to keep up with demand, why would I hire extra staff?

So there are a LOT of other things in addition to a bit of tax savings that would be considered before I'd expand. Otherwise, I'll just put that savings into my pocket (which is what happened in KS/LA).[/QUOTE]
Excellent comments & this is Always the down side of trickle down or Reganomics!

 

[yeti24]

Exactly. Focusing on job training, financial coaching and even some level of "family" coaching are still efforts to help the poor and will be far more valuable to the long-term welfare of this demographic than peddling handouts. That doesn't make us mean, selfish or "dumbasses." It means we want to solve the problem instead of enable it.

Hey @scotchtiger and others - what is your view of Mulvaney as the OMB director? Also does anyone know him personally or heard anything from those that do? Dude is sharp even if he is a tar heel grad. Ha

 

[tigertommy1]

you're a dumbass because you voted for trump. again, don't give a shit what reasons you use to justify it, but it will remain a scarlet letter for any voter of his moving forward.

Just so I understand: you are calling anyone who voted for Trump a "dumbass"? That is your stance?

 

[CLT-Tiger]

Just so I understand: you are calling anyone who voted for Trump a "dumbass"? That is your stance?

That and he's refused to answer an questions about what laws Trump may have broken to justify the rustled jimmies for impeachment.

 

[nmerritt11]

That and he's refused to answer an questions about what laws Trump may have broken to justify the rustled jimmies for impeachment.

My guess he is 23 years old or younger

 

[CUAngler]

oh my. this post, in a thread full of awful ones, has to take the cake.

you realize saudi arabia is an authoritarian regime where the common citizen has pretty much no say? and do you realize that it's also notorious for being a haven for terrorist activity and terrorist funding, often times through the ruling class? i literally don't think you could've conjured up a stupider post if you had tried. especially because the vast majority of other countries, including allies, are embarrassed as hell by our presidential choice.

Bro.

Duterte, erdogan, and Putin.

Trump has made lots of new friends.

 

[rollcall2daball]

because this isn't like voting for george bush, mitt romney, marco rubio, bob dole, etc. if it were that, i would still strongly disagree with their platforms. but i'd at least see the possible merits in voting for those individuals and would abstain from using personal attacks.

but this is donald trump, a man whose political career was literally launched off a ridiculous and frankly racist lie that our former president wasn't born in this country; a man who played off people's fears of those different than themselves to form his base; a man who embraces a post-truth era of "alternative facts" and "fake news"; and perhaps most notably, a man who is so incompetent and possibly senile that his own aides have said this of him:

Three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.

so yeah, i'll happily call people that voted for him a dumbass without a second thought.

By no means am I a supporter of either Trump or Clinton. I can certainly understand the disdain for Trump. However, a similar case could easily be made for Clinton. In fact, Comey(who everyone hates equally) admitted she was extremely careless with top secret info which by definition is gross negligence, Clinton Foundation scandals, media prepping her with debate questions, Benghazi cover up, etc.

So what about people that voted for Clinton? Are they dumb asses as well?

 

[nmerritt11]

By no means am I a supporter of either Trump or Clinton. I can certainly understand the disdain for Trump. However, a similar case could easily be made for Clinton. In fact, Comey(who everyone hates equally) admitted she was extremely careless with top secret info which by definition is gross negligence, Clinton Foundation scandals, media prepping her with debate questions, Benghazi cover up, etc.

So what about people that voted for Clinton? Are they dumb asses as well?

No because he voted for her

 

[yoseftiger]

Man, we might disagree on quite a few things ITT, but I absolutely cannot stop myself from actually laughing out loud whenever I see this gif posted.

 

[clemsonpaw00]

Just so I understand: you are calling anyone who voted for Trump a "dumbass"? That is your stance?

precisely.

That and he's refused to answer an questions about what laws Trump may have broken to justify the rustled jimmies for impeachment.

are you guys just bad at following the news? i didn't realize that i had to spell out that trump may have committed obstruction of justice, and the impending investigation could spell his doom.

My guess he is 23 years old or younger

incorrect.

 

[CLT-Tiger]

precisely.



are you guys just bad at following the news? i didn't realize that i had to spell out that trump may have committed obstruction of justice, and the impending investigation could spell his doom.



incorrect.

Please feel free to list the obstruction of justice that Trump committed. Please don't start with Comey as he already testified under oath that didn't happen.

Edit, read your post to fast. You said he "may have", so I guess that's why you haven't actually brought an argument. Carry on.