ADVERTISEMENT

Ukraine War

Regardless of this pipeline stuff, do you think that we’ve given the Ukrainians enough to win the war, or simply enough to sustain the war?

I’m not opposed to aiding Ukraine. But if we’re saying it’s to ensure the survival of Ukraine, I think we have to concede that a long war of attrition with Russia isn’t going to accomplish that. Ukraine will run out of men and Western support before Russia runs out of men and material
We certainly haven't given them enough to win and that's by design. The Ukrainians are not our friends and they never have been. If they were to win this war and eliminate Russia, we'd just be replacing one country that doesn't like us with another. But by giving them enough to keep going, we are bleeding Russia white. All the experts predicted the Ukraine would last a couple or 3 weeks against Russia and that they couldn't survive even with NATO weapons. That war is 2 years running now.

This has been a real eye opener for Russia and the rest of the world. The fact that Russia can't defeat a foe that shares a border with them is humiliating for a so called powerful country. They've lost more men than the US did in all of WW2. They are asking freaking NORTH KOREA for help at this point. That's good for the US, b/c despite what comrade Growlz says, Putin and Russia are enemies of the US. You can tell b/c they have Nuclear weapons pointed at us.

Your point is well taken. I don't think that Ukraine can necessarily beat Russia as long as Russia is willing to feed men and money into that meat grinder. But it's going to cost them a couple of million soldiers to do it and they MAY run out of material before that happens. They are already buying shells from North Korea.
 
That's good for the US, b/c despite what comrade Growlz says, Putin and Russia are enemies of the US. You can tell b/c they have Nuclear weapons pointed at us.

It's good that we do this on message boards anonymously and not face to face. That's all I'm saying
 
  • Wow
Reactions: dpic73
It's good that we do this on message boards anonymously and not face to face. That's all I'm saying
Whatever man... This is a freaking message board. Unlike most of the folks on here, I'm not rich or powerful or some hulk of a human that kicks ass. I'm a 56 year old database administrator that makes a decent living and am overweight and out of shape. If we were face to face and I said those things (which I would), you wouldn't do a damn thing. And if you did, I'd just have your ass arrested and tossed in jail. So save us your flexing...

Nothing you say on here causes me to miss a beat or lose a wink of sleep. I doubt that anything I say on here does for anyone else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yoshi121374
We certainly haven't given them enough to win and that's by design. The Ukrainians are not our friends and they never have been. If they were to win this war and eliminate Russia, we'd just be replacing one country that doesn't like us with another. But by giving them enough to keep going, we are bleeding Russia white. All the experts predicted the Ukraine would last a couple or 3 weeks against Russia and that they couldn't survive even with NATO weapons. That war is 2 years running now.

This has been a real eye opener for Russia and the rest of the world. The fact that Russia can't defeat a foe that shares a border with them is humiliating for a so called powerful country. They've lost more men than the US did in all of WW2. They are asking freaking NORTH KOREA for help at this point. That's good for the US, b/c despite what comrade Growlz says, Putin and Russia are enemies of the US. You can tell b/c they have Nuclear weapons pointed at us.

Your point is well taken. I don't think that Ukraine can necessarily beat Russia as long as Russia is willing to feed men and money into that meat grinder. But it's going to cost them a couple of million soldiers to do it and they MAY run out of material before that happens. They are already buying shells from North Korea.
I absolutely understand the geopolitical reason for it.

What I’m not comfortable is the concession that Ukraine will never win the war outright, but we will keep pushing them to fight and die for our interests anyway. The hawks have made any talk of a ceasefire or treaty complete taboo.

Putin’s an evil guy who’s wasting the lives of hundreds of thousands of soldiers, but when the Ukrainians leave their soldiers to get pounded in trenches with a 1:10 deficit in artillery shells, we’re perfectly ok with it.
 
I absolutely understand the geopolitical reason for it.

What I’m not comfortable is the concession that Ukraine will never win the war outright, but we will keep pushing them to fight and die for our interests anyway. The hawks have made any talk of a ceasefire or treaty complete taboo.

Putin’s an evil guy who’s wasting the lives of hundreds of thousands of soldiers, but when the Ukrainians leave their soldiers to get pounded in trenches with a 1:10 deficit in artillery shells, we’re perfectly ok with it.
Well, that's true, but I'd contend that Ukraine is also fighting for their own interests. As I pointed out above, Ukraine is not a friend of the US really. Sure, we are making nice noises at each other b/c of joint interests right now, but long term they have far more in common with Russia than they do the US.
 
Whatever man... This is a freaking message board. Unlike most of the folks on here, I'm not rich or powerful or some hulk of a human that kicks ass. I'm a 56 year old database administrator that makes a decent living and am overweight and out of shape. If we were face to face and I said those things (which I would), you wouldn't do a damn thing. And if you did, I'd just have your ass arrested and tossed in jail. So save us your flexing...

Nothing you say on here causes me to miss a beat or lose a wink of sleep. I doubt that anything I say on here does for anyone else.
I didn't flex you fricking D1ck. Go work out f@t@$$. Glad you provided a bio.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: hopefultiger13
I didn't flex you fricking D1ck. Go work out f@t@$$. Glad you provided a bio.
Sure you didn't... I'm surprised you didn't invite me to the Wacovia parking lot. That seems about your speed. Hey everyone, check out Growlz's avatar. He's got an AI altered fatass as his pic. How's that for being inconsistent?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: TigerGrowls
Opinion piece.



I do.

Ukraine is essentially a giant CIA base, posing as a sovereign nation.

The CIA moved into Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union, looking to take advantage of the lawless and destabilized country, using it as an offshore proxy, outside the scope of US oversight.

It began with the Nunn-Lugar Act in 1991, and then carried on into 2005, when then Senators Obama and Lugar visited Ukraine, to inspect the former Soviet bio, chemical, and nuclear facilities (pictured below), and then added Ukraine to the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, and began turning these former Soviet facilities into “defensive research facilities”, which opened the door for US contractors to establish their foothold in Ukraine, and set up their money laundering and racketeering operations, under the guise of “foreign aid”.

Then the CIA funded Nazi militant groups in Ukraine which led to the outbreak of civil war in 2014 in the Donbas. Amidst the chaos, the US State Department, via Victoria Nuland, leveraged the situation to install US-loyal puppets, including the infamous leaked phone call between her and fellow State Department bureaucrat Geoffrey Pyatt, about ensuring “their guy” Yatsenuik, was installed as Prime Minister. The State Department, in tandem with the CIA, covertly took control of Ukraine via Color Revolution in 2014.

Putin recognized this. He knew that the US had destabilized and taken control of Ukraine, and recognized that the US were building a proxy army on his border, by funding, training, and supplying Ukraine with weapons, and trying to bring them into NATO. This was a red line for Putin, as he has said for decades. Russia have been invaded from the West too many times before, and will not tolerate a hostile standing army and long-range missiles on their border. Just like the US didn’t like it when Russia tried to put nukes in Cuba in the 60’s, Russia doesn’t like the US trying to bring armies and weapons to Ukraine.

Essentially, Ukraine is an unofficial US territory and NATO member, and the Deep State do not want to lose out on their cash cow and strategic asset that is Ukraine, hence why they continue to send hundreds of billions of our tax dollars to protect Ukraine’s border. They are using Ukraine as a laundry mat to funnel in hundreds of billions for the war machine, and also covering up their extreme criminality in Ukraine, including crimes against humanity for bioweapon development, human trafficking, drug trafficking, etc. All the things they can’t get away with stateside, they do in Ukraine.

If the public knew the truth about the origins of US involvement in Ukraine, they would NEVER have supported sending a single penny to Ukraine. The narrative that Russia attacked Ukraine in 2022 “unprovoked”, is war propaganda to make it appear Ukraine are the righteous defenders in order to garner your support, when in reality, The US started this conflict, they are the ones who brought war to Putin’s doorstep, and the US are the ones perpetuating the war by continuing to fund and supply Ukraine.

Putin does not want to conquer all of Europe, he just wants NATO off of his border, and justice for US development of weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine, namely, gene-specific biological weapons.

The Cold War never truly ended.
 
World War III Watch: Russia Threatens to Wipe Kiev Off the Map If Biden and NATO Send Ukraine Long Range Missiles to Fire Deep Inside Russia
 
Opinion piece.



I do.

Ukraine is essentially a giant CIA base, posing as a sovereign nation.

The CIA moved into Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union, looking to take advantage of the lawless and destabilized country, using it as an offshore proxy, outside the scope of US oversight.

It began with the Nunn-Lugar Act in 1991, and then carried on into 2005, when then Senators Obama and Lugar visited Ukraine, to inspect the former Soviet bio, chemical, and nuclear facilities (pictured below), and then added Ukraine to the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, and began turning these former Soviet facilities into “defensive research facilities”, which opened the door for US contractors to establish their foothold in Ukraine, and set up their money laundering and racketeering operations, under the guise of “foreign aid”.

Then the CIA funded Nazi militant groups in Ukraine which led to the outbreak of civil war in 2014 in the Donbas. Amidst the chaos, the US State Department, via Victoria Nuland, leveraged the situation to install US-loyal puppets, including the infamous leaked phone call between her and fellow State Department bureaucrat Geoffrey Pyatt, about ensuring “their guy” Yatsenuik, was installed as Prime Minister. The State Department, in tandem with the CIA, covertly took control of Ukraine via Color Revolution in 2014.

Putin recognized this. He knew that the US had destabilized and taken control of Ukraine, and recognized that the US were building a proxy army on his border, by funding, training, and supplying Ukraine with weapons, and trying to bring them into NATO. This was a red line for Putin, as he has said for decades. Russia have been invaded from the West too many times before, and will not tolerate a hostile standing army and long-range missiles on their border. Just like the US didn’t like it when Russia tried to put nukes in Cuba in the 60’s, Russia doesn’t like the US trying to bring armies and weapons to Ukraine.

Essentially, Ukraine is an unofficial US territory and NATO member, and the Deep State do not want to lose out on their cash cow and strategic asset that is Ukraine, hence why they continue to send hundreds of billions of our tax dollars to protect Ukraine’s border. They are using Ukraine as a laundry mat to funnel in hundreds of billions for the war machine, and also covering up their extreme criminality in Ukraine, including crimes against humanity for bioweapon development, human trafficking, drug trafficking, etc. All the things they can’t get away with stateside, they do in Ukraine.

If the public knew the truth about the origins of US involvement in Ukraine, they would NEVER have supported sending a single penny to Ukraine. The narrative that Russia attacked Ukraine in 2022 “unprovoked”, is war propaganda to make it appear Ukraine are the righteous defenders in order to garner your support, when in reality, The US started this conflict, they are the ones who brought war to Putin’s doorstep, and the US are the ones perpetuating the war by continuing to fund and supply Ukraine.

Putin does not want to conquer all of Europe, he just wants NATO off of his border, and justice for US development of weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine, namely, gene-specific biological weapons.

The Cold War never truly ended.
Agree and disagree.

I agree with you on the general point that the US/NATO has pushed and is pushing Russia into a corner, and they’re going to respond. That’s what anyone would do. Recognizing this has nothing to do with liking Russia or Putin.

I disagree you with about Russia as it concerns bioweapons, chemical weapons, etc. They don’t have any room to talk about the issue as if they aren’t party to it themselves. They continue to develop and and have used Novichok nerve agents. Nasty stuff. A large part of their military doctrine is threatening us with the use of nuclear weapons.
 
I just cannot - for the life of me - understand why the republican right is so anti Ukraine and pro Russia. Is because Russia has claimed that Ukrainian leadership is made up of jewish nazi gay demons?

If Russia wins this war, it is bad for us. They will keep going. And we will have to fight if they attack one of our nato allies, We should all be rooting for Ukraine. At least all true patriots should.

But for people like you, who worship trump over God and country, I guess that is more important. Ukraine got trump in trouble, so we must hate them now.
i guess it is because trump loves putin. and hates nato.
 
i guess it is because trump loves putin. and hates nato.
Can’t find the post from nytigerfan to respond to.

Anyway, he said if Russia wins, “They will keep going.” I disagree with this line of thinking. It makes the huge assumption that Russia winning or losing has a predictable bearing on future wars.

They can win, rearm, and launch another war. They could lose, i.e. withdraw from Ukraine, rearm, and launch another war down the line. We don’t know. The whole thing reeks of the resources and lives we spent “containing” communism for decades. Now we’re patting ourselves on the back for not sending our own young men to die.

Is Russia “winning” good for us? I don’t think so, but it’s the reality. They are slowly but steadily wearing the Ukrainians out. A win for the West is more likely to come from securing a peace deal that leaves the Ukrainian economy and a generation of men intact than it is the delusional idea that Ukraine is going to push the Russians out at an extremely high cost.

It wasn’t wrong for Ukraine to make deals in 2014 and 2015 either. Their army was a disaster, and it was the least bad option.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls
Why dont trump make a phone call to putin to stop it , just like he did to speaker mike johnston on the senate immigration bill?
So what should he say?

Trump could say Biden and Kamala are going to launch us missiles deep into Russia but I want you to sit and take it???

Get real. Putin will react if the US attacks into Russia.
 
So what should he say?

Trump could say Biden and Kamala are going to launch us missiles deep into Russia but I want you to sit and take it???

Get real. Putin will react if the US attacks into Russia.
he is the one who said he can make it go away. Putin aint gonna do shit to the us. Could mean the end of the world, but it would certainly mean the end of Russia. Trump is a bully until he has to face another bully and then is he is mr sweety pie, will fawn all over kim dejing and pootin putin. Now his hero is hungarian strong man, putins only euro ally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dpic73
he is the one who said he can make it go away. Putin aint gonna do shit to the us. Could mean the end of the world, but it would certainly mean the end of Russia. Trump is a bully until he has to face another bully and then is he is mr sweety pie, will fawn all over kim dejing and pootin putin. Now his hero is hungarian strong man, putins only euro ally.
WTF?? We need to have the lib brain studied by science to determine what happened.
 
  • Like
Reactions: purenonsense
How much of this missing money is being used to fund deep state candidates in this year's elections? I bet it's a huge amount.

 


BREAKING: Trump just announced that Zelenskyy has requested to meet with him tomorrow at Trump Tower, and he has accepted the meeting to talk about negotiating the END of the war between Ukraine and Russia

Even Zelenskyy knows Trump's return is imminent. Other world leaders are also scrambling to set up meetings with Trump.
 


BREAKING: Trump just announced that Zelenskyy has requested to meet with him tomorrow at Trump Tower, and he has accepted the meeting to talk about negotiating the END of the war between Ukraine and Russia

Even Zelenskyy knows Trump's return is imminent. Other world leaders are also scrambling to set up meetings with Trump.
That Orange Russian bootlicker is a damn disgrace.

 


BREAKING: Trump just announced that Zelenskyy has requested to meet with him tomorrow at Trump Tower, and he has accepted the meeting to talk about negotiating the END of the war between Ukraine and Russia

Even Zelenskyy knows Trump's return is imminent. Other world leaders are also scrambling to set up meetings with Trump.
He met with Harris as well.
 
That Orange Russian bootlicker is a damn disgrace.

Putin is an extremely bad guy. If you want to call him evil, I won't argue at all. The idea that no dialogue is possible with him/Russia concerning Ukraine is the product of hysteria and delusion. And ultimately, it's not helping Ukraine either.

They aren’t retaking the land they’ve lost. They’re on the defensive across the entire front. The Russians have already blunted the “offensive” in Kursk. The situation is not going to fundamentally change because we send them a couple hundred fancy missiles.

Ukraine’s best option would have been to cut a deal and continue to strengthen itself after they had recovered a fair amount of land from the initial Russian blitz, Kherson and Kharkiv.

All we hear about is that the Russian economy will be weakened by sanctions over time, but Ukraine has to win right here and right now, throwing hundreds of thousands of men against a larger and better equipped army that has adapted and learned from its idiocy early in the war. And yes, the Russians are better equipped where it matters. Most importantly, they have more men.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls
Putin is an extremely bad guy. If you want to call him evil, I won't argue at all. The idea that no dialogue is possible with him/Russia concerning Ukraine is the product of hysteria and delusion. And ultimately, it's not helping Ukraine either.

They aren’t retaking the land they’ve lost. They’re on the defensive across the entire front. The Russians have already blunted the “offensive” in Kursk. The situation is not going to fundamentally change because we send them a couple hundred fancy missiles.

Ukraine’s best option would have been to cut a deal and continue to strengthen itself after they had recovered a fair amount of land from the initial Russian blitz, Kherson and Kharkiv.

All we hear about is that the Russian economy will be weakened by sanctions over time, but Ukraine has to win right here and right now, throwing hundreds of thousands of men against a larger and better equipped army that has adapted and learned from its idiocy early in the war. And yes, the Russians are better equipped where it matters. Most importantly, they have more men.
That wasn't really the argument I was making but I understand your point - I don't like it but I understand it.

I was talking about how insulting and disgusting it was for Trump to host Zelensky only to praise a murderous dictator who invaded his country in front of him, as if they both have legitimate arguments.

And then to make it even more uncomfortable, he used the briefing to re-litigate his first impeachment and claimed that Zelensky said he "absolutely did nothing wrong", which was an outright lie but Zelensky had to suck it up and not say anything because he knew the consequences if Trump were to be re-elected. I can't imagine how humiliating that was for Zelensky to be put in that position in front of the cameras by that despicable agent for Russia. Dude is just so unfit it's embarrassing.


 
That wasn't really the argument I was making but I understand your point - I don't like it but I understand it.

I was talking about how insulting and disgusting it was for Trump to host Zelensky only to praise a murderous dictator who invaded his country in front of him, as if they both have legitimate arguments.

And then to make it even more uncomfortable, he used the briefing to re-litigate his first impeachment and claimed that Zelensky said he "absolutely did nothing wrong", which was an outright lie but Zelensky had to suck it up and not say anything because he knew the consequences if Trump were to be re-elected. I can't imagine how humiliating that was for Zelensky to be put in that position in front of the cameras by that despicable agent for Russia. Dude is just so unfit it's embarrassing.


Whining. Trump will stop the war and you will find a reason to be pissed about it.
 
Whining. Trump will stop the war and you will find a reason to be pissed about it.
Stop the war = Cut off aid and surrender Ukraine to Putin

In other words, he will "collude" with Russia

GYfwKDTaIAA_Fvx
 
That wasn't really the argument I was making but I understand your point - I don't like it but I understand it.

I was talking about how insulting and disgusting it was for Trump to host Zelensky only to praise a murderous dictator who invaded his country in front of him, as if they both have legitimate arguments.

And then to make it even more uncomfortable, he used the briefing to re-litigate his first impeachment and claimed that Zelensky said he "absolutely did nothing wrong", which was an outright lie but Zelensky had to suck it up and not say anything because he knew the consequences if Trump were to be re-elected. I can't imagine how humiliating that was for Zelensky to be put in that position in front of the cameras by that despicable agent for Russia. Dude is just so unfit it's embarrassing.


“As if they both have legitimate arguments.”

This is the core of the issue. I think it’s wrong to flat out dismiss Russia’s claims and concerns as illegitimate. To me, they’ve acted in a more or less rational way to what they perceive as a threat (We’ve gone to war for less). When we reject that and boil down everything down to Russia being fundamentally belligerent by nature, it’s easy to believe that they will only respond to force. As a result, we ignore the effect our stance has on them, they prepare for war or carry out what they frame as a defensive war, and our stance becomes self-fulfilling.

It’s a good idea to avoid that trap, especially when it’s difficult to do so.

Going to battle against Putin in the moral debate isn’t helpful either given our current and recent entanglements abroad. We fund and have funded various murderous dictators, and we’ve launched what others would see as evil wars. There’s no practical way to avoid being hypocritical if we continue to style ourselves as the world’s police force, and we have seen on many occasions that our intervention creates more problems than it fixes. We’re uniquely good at sparking conflicts we then offer to fix
 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls


If you were wondering why they are trying to kill Trump, this is why.

Trump is about to negotiate an end to the conflict in Ukraine. This means the military industrial complex lose their cash cow, and the CIA lose their offshore proxy.

This is why they impeached Trump as soon as he started digging into where the money was going in Ukraine. Trump did not commit any crime. All he did was get too close to finding out what was going on.

And now if Trump does win the election and does negotiate an end to conflict and the end the flow of money, as he claims, then the public will see that Trump is the peacekeeper, and the Biden regime were the ones who instigated this war.

And one of the stipulations Putin will demand in order to come to an agreement, will include a full-scale UN security council investigation of US bioweapon development in Ukraine. Putin and his military have been demanding it at the UN for years now, and the US veto every attempt. Given RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard have been extremely vocal about this subject, it’s very likely if Trump wins, that his administration will not only agree with Putin in this regard, but assist him in exposing and resolving this threat to humanity.

This is what’s at stake. This is why the Dems seeing Trump talking to Zelensky is their worst nightmare. If Ukraine falls, the Deep State face extinction.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT